2 Folds against the same guy

SmileyEH · #1 12-12-2005, 03:52 PM

Villian is a TAG. I did both these river decisions pretty much instantly. Maybe the first one is bad, or it made the last one bad because of metagame? The second one occured 2 hands after the first.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Hero ($209.85)
SB ($191.80)
BB ($85)
UTG ($222.30)
MP ($189)
CO ($179.05)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, MP raises to $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $14, SB (poster) calls $13, 1 fold, MP calls $10.

Flop: ($44) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($44) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets $12, MP calls $12, Hero raises to $75, SB folds, MP calls $63.

River: ($206) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets $55, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $261

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Hero ($183)
BB ($165.80)
UTG ($81)
MP ($219.30)
CO ($303)
Button ($199.05)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $1.
2 folds, CO raises to $4, 1 fold, Hero (poster) calls $3, BB calls $2.

Flop: ($12) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $7, CO calls $7, Hero calls $7.

Turn: ($33) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $25, BB folds, CO calls $25.

River: ($83) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $35, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $118

-SmileyEH

Slappz · #2 12-12-2005, 04:15 PM

1st hand looks pretty ugly, bet the flop, since u didnt, call the river.

2nd hand u got counterfeited so i doubt ur hand is good, but id put a lot more pressure on the flop/turn.

SmileyEH · #3 12-12-2005, 04:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1st hand looks pretty ugly, bet the flop, since u didnt, call the river.

2nd hand u got counterfeited so i doubt ur hand is good, but id put a lot more pressure on the flop/turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you bet the flop?

-SmileyEH

yvesaint · #4 12-12-2005, 04:20 PM

why wouldnt you bet the flop? why wouldnt you bet the flop on hand 2?

your location seems appropriate

SmileyEH · #5 12-12-2005, 04:22 PM

I don't see what a flop bet accomplishes in hand 1. There aren't really any draws, only better hands will call (AK and a set). If I check I'll probably get action from hand like JJ (almost surely the turn bettor in this case). I'm no expert at nl but I really don't see why betting the flop in the first hand is best.

-SmileyEH

yvesaint · #6 12-12-2005, 04:26 PM

so youre saying you wouldnt even bet AK on hand 1, because according to your logic, only another AK or a set will call your flop bet (which is pretty funny, if youre playing in games this tight, you might as well bet any 2 there)

SmileyEH · #7 12-12-2005, 04:29 PM

I'm slowplaying...the relative strength of my hand v. my opponents is unlikely to change during the course of the hand. I'm never goign to stack someone here so theres no need to build a pot. Can you just tell me why I should bet this flop as in what hands will I extract value from that I wouldn't extract more from by checking or which draws I will protect from? Everybody bets after raising preflop, but you still need a good reason to.

-SmileyEH

Slappz · #8 12-12-2005, 04:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Why would you bet the flop?

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you have the best hand.

In hand 2 id probably checkraise and lead 3/4 pot on most turns, betting into the raiser is an option too but i just like to check-raise ppl.

rwanger · #9 12-12-2005, 04:41 PM

Hand 1.

I would definately bet this flop myself because I am against two opponents. I think if you're checking here, it should be for deception and to keep your opponents off balance, but there is no need to do this in a multiway pot.

CERTAINLY call that river. He's making a tiny bet into a large pot. I think you are good here often enough to make the call. It looks like a blocking bet to me (which, he could be doing with a better hand than yours in this case). If he hit his flush he should be betting more than 1/4 of the pot. Why call a large raise on the draw if you aren't going to get max value on the river when you hit?

In the future, if you are going to abandon your hand in the face of a tiny bet like this, then don't bother raising the turn. Just call him on again on the river. It would probably have cost you less money, and you'd get to see what he had.

I have no problem with hand 2, in a vacuum, you are definately behind after the river. EXCEPT that if I was the villian, I would have learned from hand 1 that it doesn't take much to get you to fold on the river. I would bet 1/3 of the pot on the river against you just about chance I could for the rest of the night. Then, just to mix it up, I'd check to you with a decent hand and call when you bet your worse hand because you're sick of me always buying the pot.

I'm not sure what you were implying about meta-game, but for future meta-game purposes, definately call the river in hand 1 (expecting to be beat much of the time (but not ALL of the time)), so that hand 2 doesn't happen to you all night long.

Allinlife · #10 12-12-2005, 04:42 PM

I like hand 1..I probably would have raised tiny bit lower, but it works out. betting on the flop isn't bad either, but often when someone checks after raising preflop, on such boards, it either means they flopped top set or have second underpairs, ie) KK, QQ/ JJ in this case and checking the flop/ raising turn lets you extract most out of worse hands I think. you should probably check most rivers too.

in Hand 2, I think you should really bet or check raise the flop. given how you played, I think river call may be fine..Axh could very easily be in his hand range accroding to his action thusfar, and you are getting nice odds