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  #1  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:40 PM
45suited 45suited is offline
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Default The nature of 800 chip games

This is just basically a philosophical question regarding the nature of 800 chip SNGs. In this hand, I had AQ hit TPTK, and doubled up a player with KK. Looking at my HH, the only play that I could question was my flop C/R, but as I think about it more, I don't think that it would have mattered. What I'm getting at is, especially in 800 chip games, is there enough room to ever get away from this? (Being a 22, obviously I have no knowledge of this player prior to this game.)

My feeling is that the stacks are so short that sometimes you are just destined to give all your chips away and that playing any differently might be good for that hand, but bad for you SNG game overall.

I bring this up because I sometimes look at other players' HHs, and I tell them that in order to avoid stuff like this, their games would turn into MUTB weak tight pansies. IMO, if I don't double up the button here, I played the hand wrong. This is assuming an unknown opponent on the 22s.

Correct or incorrect?


PartyPoker, Big Blind is t30 (10 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t595)
UTG+1 (t1350)
MP1 (t730)
MP2 (t850)
MP3 (t582)
CO+1 (t745)
Hero (t835)
Button (t693)
SB (t675)
BB (t945)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, UTG+1 calls t30, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP3 folds</font>, <font color="gray">CO+1 folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises t130</font>, Button calls t130, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>, <font color="gray">BB folds</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>

Flop: (t335) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">Button bets t100</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises t300</font>, <font color="red">Button raises t463(All-in)</font>, Hero calls t263

Turn: (t1461) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)


River: (t1461) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Button had KK
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  #2  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:43 PM
GtrHtr GtrHtr is offline
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Default Re: The nature of 800 chip games

I think you are right.

BTW, don't throw stuff at me ~ but I usually fold this PF at this level. *Ducks*
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  #3  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:46 PM
pergesu pergesu is offline
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Default Re: The nature of 800 chip games

I completely agree with you on this hand. It's way too easy for him to have a flush draw, an open ender, a weaker Q, JJ/TT. The only hands you lose to are a retarded 2 pair, a set, or an overpair. The fact that our stacks shrink rather quickly as the blinds increase, and particularly because so many of our opponents are willing to put their stacks in on marginal holdings, means that you have to be willing to bet it all in spots like this. Occasionally you get broke, but playing this hand any other way is less than optimal.

Harrington mentions this a couple times in his books. He says stuff like, "He may have you beat, but this is a tournament and you don't have the time to lay down good hands like this. Just push and hope you're best."
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  #4  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: The nature of 800 chip games

More often than not you will be winning this hand against opponents with the likes of JJ or lower, KQ, KJ etc, which means you are correct to play it.

Some people may not play AQ so strongly in level 2, but witth your position there isn't a thing I would do differently.

800 chips is more of a gamble/luckfest or whatever, but as long as we are maximising the best of it there is no problem. I would say this is a good example of doing this.
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  #5  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:49 PM
GtrHtr GtrHtr is offline
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Default Re: The nature of 800 chip games

Who's Harrington?
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  #6  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:49 PM
johnnybeef johnnybeef is offline
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Default Re: The nature of 800 chip games

[ QUOTE ]
I completely agree with you on this hand. It's way too easy for him to have a flush draw, an open ender, a weaker Q, JJ/TT. The only hands you lose to are a retarded 2 pair, a set, or an overpair. The fact that our stacks shrink rather quickly as the blinds increase, and particularly because so many of our opponents are willing to put their stacks in on marginal holdings, means that you have to be willing to bet it all in spots like this. Occasionally you get broke, but playing this hand any other way is less than optimal.

Harrington mentions this a couple times in his books. He says stuff like, "He may have you beat, but this is a tournament and you don't have the time to lay down good hands like this. Just push and hope you're best."

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm scared. Pergesu's advice was spot on here.
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  #7  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:51 PM
GtrHtr GtrHtr is offline
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Default Re: The nature of 800 chip games

It usually is.
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  #8  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:51 PM
Jbrochu Jbrochu is offline
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Default Re: The nature of 800 chip games

Even in the 1500 chip games I have a hard time getting away from TPTK once about 1/3 of my stack or more has been committed.
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  #9  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:52 PM
ZeroPointMachine ZeroPointMachine is offline
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Default Re: The nature of 800 chip games

My personal belief is that both players have to have at least 50xBB before there is enough maneuvering room to escape from TPTK. With any less it is really hard to escape being pot committed by the possibility of a bluff/crazy donk at these levels.
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  #10  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:55 PM
Vuron00 Vuron00 is offline
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Default Re: The nature of 800 chip games

The only thing that I'm doing different is C/R all-in. There is really no reason to only C/R to 300. If he comes back over the top, you're not folding anyway. Just put a little more pressure on his decision.

And I agree with the other posters. Playing with so few chips is going to put you to these decisions more than you would like and you have no room to maneuver. Any other way is just playing too weak-tight.
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