pocket 10's- wasn't sure of my play on ANY street!

[paulie]

1st post on this site, although I have been picking up some great info & tips. Thanks to all!

Partypoker 3/6 full table, no reads on anyone as it is early.
As BB I hold 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Preflop:UTG calls,MP1 calls,MP2 calls,button calls,SB calls,I call <font color="blue"> (six limpers) </font>
Flop:10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB checks,I check, <font color="red"> UTG bets </font> ,MP1 calls,MP2 folds,button folds,SB folds,I call

Turn:5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (3 players) </font>
I check,UTG checks,MP1 bets, <font color="red"> I raise </font> ,UTG folds,MP1 calls

River:Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (2 players) </font>
<font color="red">I bet </font> , <font color="red">MP1 raises </font> ,I call

My questions are did I play it correctly preflop(no raise into 5 limpers), and should I have raised the river? My thought at the end is that he could have limped his AK in mid position or possibly slow played 89s after flopping the straight. He wound up having JQo, surprising me.

[DrNick]

Hello paulie,

Welcome to the forum.

Preflop I think you did fine by Checking the BB. You flop the middle set on a relatively dangerous board, with a straight already possible and a flush draw to boot.

I would not slowplay here. I would lead out on the flop, and be willing to cap it up if a raising war breaks out. I would only slow down if an opponent continued to show aggression on the turn. However, I'm going to the river regardless.


Given that you've played the hand as you did, I bet the river, and call down the raise. It is a rare opponent who would have slowplayed any hand that will beat you this long. As you found out, two pair is far more likely. Resist the urge to see monsters lurking in dark corners.

So, there is some room for improvment, but you didn't make any egregious errors.

Best wishes,
DrNick

[paulie]

Thanks, Doc.
The reason the raise on the river surprised me is that I personally would have mucked his QJo preflop. QJ was the only hand that I could put him on that would like the Q(river)- but that I could still beat.
I was intending to CR the flop(instead of betting out), but when so many folded I thought seeing the turn may be the better option- with so many seeing the flop, I thought a spade draw was likely.
Thanks for the help, this site is the best for a new player like m'self! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[jasonHoldEm]

Welcome to the forum. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

With a two-tone flop that's coordinated with two touching cards I play this hand as fast as possible, bet/raise/cap the flop. I'd continue to bet on the turn and beyond, but if they kept coming back at me I would probably slow down a little. I'm not really scared until another spade falls, and even then you have some outs to fill up, so get your money in quick and charge them to draw out on you.

jHE

[DrNick]

paulie,

A quick followup.

While you will certainly not go broke at $3/$6 by assuming that your opponents play/think as you do, you are likely going to miss out on bets.

Yes, QJo is a marginal limping hand from early middle position. However, some fairly typical opponents will play QT, Q7, Q5s and a whole array of crazy "garbage" hands in any position.

My personal approach is to assume a truly unknown opponent plays reasonably, but makes the wrong choice on every close decision. This tends to put him/her around the 60th percentile in low-limit play in my estimation.

Within three orbits of the table, I hope to already have my picture of the opponent revised to a much closer approximation of his actual playing style. The two main things I look for are looseness preflop and aggressiveness post-flop. Next, I try to get a sense on what the player's idea of a "big hand" is. Will he slowplay, or does he bet regularly up on improving?

In brick and mortar cardrooms, you will play with the same opponents over an over, so it is easy to build up a repretoire of knowledge about their playing styles. Online, it is a bit more difficult. I would keep notes on handles that you have seen, and how they played. I would recommend going to pokertracker.com to see what kind of stats tracking is available. (I'm cheap, so I write my own software, but you might find it useful.)

Cheers,
DrNick

[tripdad]

i agree with jasonholdem, though i will add that a preflop raise is definitely in order here.

you cannot slowplay this, as your set is too vulnerable to straights and flushes. you have to step on the gas hard here on all streets. if the board were slightly different...say 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], you could check/raise the flop(notice you still need to raise because of possible open straight draw).

when making the decision to slow play, you need an uncoordinated board. this clearly doesn't meet that requirement.

cheers!

[paulie]

I am seeing the value of all the advice to jam this one, but for what purpose would I raise Preflop? Overcards are going to be the death of me against so many, and I am going to be playing this hand out of position if I get a flop I like. Maybe with less initial callers I would raise....
Why do you suggest the raise against 5 opponents?

[tripdad]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you suggest the raise against 5 opponents?

[/ QUOTE ]

a. you clearly have the best hand.

b. when the 10 hits, you will get tons of action, because you opponents will not suspect it.

c. pocket pairs do well versus 5 opponents.

d. you will have an overpair to the board a good amount of the time, and an overpair to the flop even more. remember, you will beat AK more than half the time here.

e. see a.

cheers!

[Bob T.]

I would bet the flop. With this flop, your bet could mean anything, it could be a draw, top pair, a pair with a draw, or something else. You don't give away any information by betting, and you have what is probably the best hand, and also probably the best draw. If you bet, and get raised (which is likely on this flop) you can threebet and start building a very nice pot which you will likely win.

Given that you played the flop passively, checkraising the turn is probably correct.

I think your opponent should have called the river, instead of raising, he had a lot of ways that he could have been drawing dead. Raising on that board, showed more strength than he had, and you probably were right in not reraising.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
1st post on this site, although I have been picking up some great info &amp; tips. Thanks to all!

Partypoker 3/6 full table, no reads on anyone as it is early.
As BB I hold 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Preflop:UTG calls,MP1 calls,MP2 calls,button calls,SB calls,I call <font color="blue"> (six limpers) </font>
Flop:10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB checks,I check, <font color="red"> UTG bets </font> ,MP1 calls,MP2 folds,button folds,SB folds,I call

Turn:5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (3 players) </font>
I check,UTG checks,MP1 bets, <font color="red"> I raise </font> ,UTG folds,MP1 calls

River:Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (2 players) </font>
<font color="red">I bet </font> , <font color="red">MP1 raises </font> ,I call

My questions are did I play it correctly preflop(no raise into 5 limpers), and should I have raised the river? My thought at the end is that he could have limped his AK in mid position or possibly slow played 89s after flopping the straight. He wound up having JQo, surprising me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise preflop. Others have mentioned this so I'll leave it at that.

Occassionally go to war on the flop here. Tons of draws and its not a bad idea to just start spraying chips right here, right now.

Reraise the river. Look, he doesn't have a straight on the turn or he'd have reraised you there. The fact that he bet the turn makes it nearly impossible that the queen gave him a straight. So his most likely holding by far is queens-up. Straightforward hand reading that should have netted you an extra bet.