Dignity

[Matt R.]

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If a man lays prostrate before God, he sacrifices his dignity. He is essentially saying, "I am nothing without You, God." Where is his self-worth? Therefore, he has no dignity before God.

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If you assume there is a God, as Christians believe, then you would not exist without God. Therefore, the statement that "I am nothing without You, God" would be completely accurate. It has nothing to do with lack of self-respect.

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Secondly, if another man slaps him across the face and insults him, he is supposed to turn the other cheek in an act of complete submission. This time he sacrifices his dignity and self-worth before other humans

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Christians do not believe this.

Matt R, I think you might be reading into my post to find a hidden agenda. There's nothing more than what meets the eye.

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If you assume there is a God, as Christians believe, then you would not exist without God. Therefore, the statement that "I am nothing without You, God" would be completely accurate. It has nothing to do with lack of self-respect.

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That's fine, but I'm not questioning the validity of this behavior. I just want to get idea of the value of dignity in Christianity. It is my opinion that it holds little value. And you say it has nothing to do with self-respect, but it has everything to do with displaying self-respect.


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Christians do not believe this.

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Really? I did when I was a Christian. How do you interpret Matthew 5:38-45?

[Matt R.]

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Matt R, I think you might be reading into my post to find a hidden agenda. There's nothing more than what meets the eye.

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? I simply responded to your statements.

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That's fine, but I'm not questioning the validity of this behavior. I just want to get idea of the value of dignity in Christianity. It is my opinion that it holds little value. And you say it has nothing to do with self-respect, but it has everything to do with displaying self-respect.

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I'm not sure I follow you. The value of dignity for a Christian is the same as it is for a non-Christian. Not including obvious person-to-person differences which occur regardless of religious beliefs. You claim you used to be a Christian. How was your self-respect different then than it is now? If you have more self-respect now, are you sure it's not just because you grew as a person, and not because you're "non-Christian" now?

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Really? I did when I was a Christian. How do you interpret Matthew 5:38-45?

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This passage should not be taken literally, and context is extremely important. There are other passages from the Bible where Jesus clearly states you should stand up for yourself. I believe an accepted interpratation is that Jesus is essentially saying "Don't let evil overcome you." As in, don't let your hatred for this person who is mis-treating you guide your actions. If he's mistreating you because of your religion due to his ignorance, he can't help this, and you should not hold it against him. etc., etc. I'm sure you get the idea. But, if he has legitimate malicious intent, you should fight back.

I'm sure that there are many many people who view the passage literally, but when you start to do that the Bible starts to make zero sense in general. I'm no theologian though, but this is what I've been taught in the past and is my interpretation.

[BluffTHIS!]

Matt gave you the logical reason why my previous post was correct *assuming* Christianity and the God it believes in to be true.

And likewise, I did say that because of the innate dignity every person has, then others should act with respect toward others. Indeed that is part of what humility means.

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I'm not sure I follow you. The value of dignity for a Christian is the same as it is for a non-Christian. Not including obvious person-to-person differences which occur regardless of religious beliefs. You claim you used to be a Christian. How was your self-respect different then than it is now? If you have more self-respect now, are you sure it's not just because you grew as a person, and not because you're "non-Christian" now?

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I put a much higher value on dignity now than I did as a Christian. I also place little value on humility, except in certain circumstances. A Christian is supposed to deny oneself. I no longer see the value in doing this, and often I view this sort of thing as false modesty.

Further, I disagree with your statement that dignity necessarily holds the same value for Christians and non-Christians. It depends of course what the non-Christian is. In my case, I am an atheist. For me there is no "right" way to live, so I have to create values for myself. Dignity is a characteristic which I happen to value. Also, since I feel this way about all humans, I think humans have a hell of a lot of dignity since no God tells them what to do.

For Christians, however, there is a God who commands. By virtue of his commanding nature, humans are thus relegated to be obeyers. Therefore, they lack any dignity other than that which this God decides to give them. Because he gives them dignity, and they don't have it on their own accord, it is a less significant dignity than that of the atheist's.

[BluffTHIS!]

Stop misusing the word "dignity". You mean "pride".

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pride ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prd)
n.
A sense of one's own proper dignity or value; self-respect.


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[BluffTHIS!]

Sense of X does not equal X.

connotation/denotation.

You are messing with the connotation. Forget the term "dignity" as it is used in religious talk and think of it in secular terms. It means self-worth, period. We're not talking about the "natural human worth given to all humans by God." Am I right in thinking this is the dignity you are referring to? We should clear this up because that definition relies on religion and is irrelevant.

[BluffTHIS!]

Even though you are using the word dignity as a synonym for pride, they are not exactly equivalent. So what is your objection to just using the word "pride"?