Flop/Turn Decision With Vulnerable TP

toss · #1 11-08-2005, 05:34 PM

Loose Donkish UTG limps, UTG+1 raises, MP1 coldcalls, MP3 (Loose Caller and Passive after 60 hands) calls, I call with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in CO, BB calls. 6 to the flop for 12 SB.

Flop is 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG bets out (any piece of the board), UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 raises, Hero...

Webster · #2 11-08-2005, 05:43 PM

hmmm - I can't get over cold calling with A7s. I'd fold out of shame for calling the flop :-)

The PROBLEM is that a flop like THAT could hit and then you have a problem. I'd fold. TO much bad in that flop. Top pair is pretty low, you have people drawing to a flush, a straight and do you thin a pair of 7s will take down the pot??

toss · #3 11-08-2005, 05:45 PM

The pot is pretty big and I have often have 3 or 4 outs.

Bill Lumberg · #4 11-08-2005, 06:24 PM

How likely is it a 3-bet will knock out UTG or MP? Probably not very likely, so it seems calling and reevaluating on the turn is best. I don't think I could fold since UTG would bet anything and MP could be on a draw.

Can you think of any good arguments to fold or 3-bet?

W. Deranged · #5 11-08-2005, 06:44 PM

I kind of like calling here and raising any turn which is not a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5, or 6, folding to a raise.

I don't have that much to be concerned about an overpair as UTG+1 folded. Sets and straights are possibly but they will usually get slowplayed. Often we're just up against single pairs, draws, or combo hands.

Raising the flop is bad as we're unlikely to shut out anyone except BB who'll usually fold for 2 if he'll fold for 3. Our turn card does a ton to define our equity.

Another nice thing about calling the flop is that the most likely turn bettor is MP3, on whom you have perfect relative position.

I'm totally willing to commit to a 3 BB line here in what is already an 8 BB pot.

Nick C · #6 11-08-2005, 07:04 PM

I'd like to put more pressure on UTG and MP1 if I'm ahead, but the raise from the passive guy concerns me, and I'd probably compromise and call. A turn raise could do a better job of protecting, although almost any turn card could be one of the wrong ones and could make it impossible for us to drive out UTG or MP1 anymore. But maybe we can't anyway.

W. Deranged's turn raise-fold on a non-diamond, non 5 or 6 sounds like a good plan to me, though I can imagine myself kind of getting trapped in calldown mode (which I think is bad here) after I cold-called the flop.

The thing is, though, I am worried the passive guy has an overpair. However, our turn raise might freeze him up anyway, and, if so, we're not going to be throwing away a 4-5 outer very often.

toss · #7 11-08-2005, 07:04 PM

I thought a turn raise would be good too. I flat called, UTG and MP1 also called. 4 to the turn for 10 BB.

Turn is a beautiful 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Checked to MP3 who bets, I raise, they all call.

River is an ugly T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG checks, MP1 bets out, MP3 raises, and I instamuck. I would have been tempted to call had UTG not raised.

<font color="white">UTG:QdJd MP3:Ad6d </font>

W. Deranged · #8 11-08-2005, 07:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I thought a turn raise would be good too. I flat called, UTG and MP1 also called. 4 to the turn for 10 BB.

Turn is a beautiful 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Checked to MP3 who bets, I raise, they all call.

River is an ugly T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG checks, MP1 bets out, MP3 raises, and I instamuck. I would have been tempted to call had UTG not raised.

<font color="white">UTG:QdJd MP3:Ad6d </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that sucks. Nicely played, though.