A Hand From the Archives: AKs play along

jason_t · #1 12-09-2005, 09:27 PM

I was asked by PM to post this hand again.

The limpers are donks and the BB is fairly passive but can be donkish at times. Just think standard Party 2/4 texture.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, Hero caps, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (17 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)

oxymoron · #2 12-09-2005, 09:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I was asked by PM to post this hand again.

The limpers are donks and the BB is fairly passive but can be donkish at times. Just think standard Party 2/4 texture.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, Hero caps, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (17 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)

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I'm leading here and hoping that BB will also raise and that it folds back to me [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] If I lead out and BB raises and it is 3bet I'm folding.

MEbenhoe · #3 12-09-2005, 09:42 PM

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I'm leading here and hoping that BB will also raise and that it folds back to me [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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Yes
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If I lead out and BB raises and it is 3bet I'm folding.

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No, folding here when you're getting 12:1 immediate odds on your call at a minimum is bad.

newhizzle · #4 12-09-2005, 09:54 PM

id go ahead and bet here, add another player or two and i think its a check, but i dont think its worth giving away your exact hand(if theyre smart enough to figure it out) at this point with a gutshot and two probably clean overs against only 3 donkeys

try to rep a pair for now until BB tells you hes got one

oxymoron · #5 12-09-2005, 10:18 PM

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I'm leading here and hoping that BB will also raise and that it folds back to me [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

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Yes
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If I lead out and BB raises and it is 3bet I'm folding.

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No, folding here when you're getting 12:1 immediate odds on your call at a minimum is bad.

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I bet, BB raises, UTG 3bets, MP1 folds and it comes back to me. I'm getting 11.5 to 1 here unless MP1 calls which would give me 12 to 1. It could be capped which would give me effective odds of 8.6 to 1 or 10 to 1 if MP stays.

All I have here are two high cards at this point and a week wheel draw. I need more convincing that facing a 3bet/possible cap is a call. Now if I had a back door flush draw I would call 2more and peel for the turn.

damaniac · #6 12-09-2005, 10:20 PM

After you cap and lead, does BB raising really make you very happy?

oxymoron · #7 12-09-2005, 10:28 PM

If it gets me HU and improves my FE yes. If it gets a better hand to 3bet so I can move out of the way - yes.

MEbenhoe · #8 12-09-2005, 10:42 PM

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I need more convincing that facing a 3bet/possible cap is a call.

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well at this point its purely math, I don't know what more convincing there is to do?

oxymoron · #9 12-09-2005, 10:50 PM

Okay what ranges do you put the other people on when you bet and it is three bet to you? What is your equity on those ranges? Show me your math or you call here because you love AKs and you really haven't done ranges/math? I'm at work and without pokerstove at the moment but even with AKs I think your drawing very thin when it's 3bet back to you.

Don't put random for other people either becuase if it is bet and than 3bet someone has a PP or at least flush draw / straight draw at a minimum.

silkyslim · #10 12-09-2005, 11:48 PM

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Okay what ranges do you put the other people on when you bet and it is three bet to you? What is your equity on those ranges? Show me your math or you call here because you love AKs and you really haven't done ranges/math? I'm at work and without pokerstove at the moment but even with AKs I think your drawing very thin when it's 3bet back to you.

Don't put random for other people either becuase if it is bet and than 3bet someone has a PP or at least flush draw / straight draw at a minimum.

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if you get people to fold you can win with an A or a 5, maybe not a K. 12-1 is good enough.