$55: Overpair in level 1

[Uppercut]

The reason I would call this pre-flop raise with my 88 is that my bet closes out the action and I don't have to worry about another raise after me. I know that an anecdote is not evidence, but this very situation happened to me tonight when I limped with 77 in level 1 and called a 60 chip raise because I closed out the betting. I flopped a set and raked in about 1700 more chips when some donk called my all-in on the turn with his pair of 9s.

[Moonsugar]

So, I guess my fold PF line went over well. LOL.

The reason I like to limp fold in this situation is twofold 1) to setup a later limp/rr and 2) because my inner demon really really likes to play flops exactly like you had very fast. The problem with that is (in general) 50% of the time I am way behind and 50% of the time I am a moderate favorite, not good odds. I think most players share this problem I have. Plus, I just don't think I am giving away that much value even if I played it better after the flop than I do.

The other line which I mentioned hasn't drawn much debate but is one to try: Raise PF. By raising PF you can risk more PF to give you a better chance to take down the pot postflop. It gives you a much better chance to win w/o hitting your set. You probably would have won this hand without being all in on a bad play.

[Taraz]

I really don't like raising utg preflop w/ any pocket pair below JJ in level 1. Even JJ I sometimes limp, but that's cause I'm a little biatch. Anyway, it's early in the tournament, and if you get more than 1 caller it makes playing post flop difficult since you are OOP with probable overcards. Do you just check/fold Kxx flops?

[Moonsugar]

No, if I raise PF with this hand then with 2 or less opps I am leading at almost every flop. With 3 I lead if no A or K. IMO, that is how you have to play it if you raise preflop.

In the hand you actually played you get to probably the same situation before the flop, 4 ways in a raised pot. The big difference is you have the initiative since you were the preflop raiser. The downside is you can get reraised off your hand preflop. But I don't think that risk outweighs the initiative, mixing up play, and the perils of playing 88 postflop w/o a set and w/o overcards in a huge pot after having limped/called.

Limping is my default but I raise a fair amount.

There are lots of situations in SnG where there is only one right way to play the hand, first in preflop level 1 with 88 is not one of them.

[downtown]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but we've been over this.

Most players won't pull out enough $$ post flop with this hand here to make it worth it even though it's only 6% of your stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm, this has to be wrong. Even a below average player is going to be able to pull more than t187.5 more when they hit, which is what's needed to make the p/f call even odds (assuming we first limped). So postflop we're looking at a pot of t325, an we're not going to be able to pull out t187.5 more on average when there has been a big pf raise and 2 other coldcallers?????

I think you're way off base here. I might agree if there were 2 to the flop or in another situation, but not here. No way. Unless you're going to provide some other rationale than we've been over this as to why we can't get t190 or more on average out of this flop postflop I can't accept "we've been over this."

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless you're going to provide some other rationale than we've been over this as to why we can't get t190 or more on average out of this flop postflop I can't accept "we've been over this."

[/ QUOTE ]

I should have clarified: Johnnybeef and I have been over this.

Anyway, I stand by my comments in this thread despite what some v good posters have said about it being ridiculously idiotic.

Pocket pair play in Party STTs is *way* overrated. All of the people rationalizing it due to reference of what is accepted strategy for cash nl ring games is completely bonkers IMO and has some serious misunderstandings about STTs.

Yugoslav

[Deuce2High]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Unless you're going to provide some other rationale than we've been over this as to why we can't get t190 or more on average out of this flop postflop I can't accept "we've been over this."

[/ QUOTE ]

I should have clarified: Johnnybeef and I have been over this.

Anyway, I stand by my comments in this thread despite what some v good posters have said about it being ridiculously idiotic.

Pocket pair play in Party STTs is *way* overrated. All of the people rationalizing it due to reference of what is accepted strategy for cash nl ring games is completely bonkers IMO and has some serious misunderstandings about STTs.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

QFFT

( Yugo just ask if you don't know what the extra F is for this time. <3 )