Two poorly played preflop hands that turned into 2nd best....need help

Insanity · #1 08-05-2004, 04:53 PM

Hand 1:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 max, 4 handed)

SB ($43.77)
BB ($25)
UTG ($25.83)
Hero ($42.40)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, Hero calls $0.50, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $1, SB folds, BB calls $1.

Turn: ($3.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2, BB calls $2.

River: ($7.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4, BB raises to $8, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $19.50

Hand 2:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 max, 5 handed)

Button ($43.72)
SB ($23.65)
BB ($29.40)
UTG ($24.88)
Hero ($28.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, Hero calls $0.50, Button folds, SB completes, BB raises to $1, Hero calls $0.50, SB calls $0.50.

Flop: ($3) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.5, Hero calls $0.50, SB calls $0.50.

Turn: ($4.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $4.3, Hero calls $4.30, SB folds.

River: ($13.10) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $3, Hero raises to $10, BB raises to $23.6 (All-In), Hero calls $12.35 (All-In).

Final Pot: $59.05

Again I made stupid preflop calls, but now I've landed monsters (or at least one). What should I do and how should I have played these from the flop on. I really need advice. Results will be posted later. Thanks

Huskiez · #2 08-05-2004, 05:19 PM

Hey Insanity,

Here's my advice.

Hand 1: Muck preflop. If you're going to play it, raise, especially because you're on the button and opening. On the flop and turn I would bet around the pot. On the river, I'd make a value bet (close to pot, slightly less), and I'd call the check raise. Villain could easily be doing that with worse than your two pair in my opinion. If you had K2, I would say fold as not many hands worse than top pair will min check raise you. But in your hand, I would probably call the river raise, especially because he's BB and could have some odd two pair.

Hand 2: Muck preflop. Again if I opened, I would come in for a raise. On the flop, I would consider betting because villain might have some draw as the board is really draw heavy, or an overpair. If one of those draw cards hit, your action could be killed, and if he has a draw himself, it won't matter whether you start the betting now or later. In the end though, I would lose my chips on this hand.

Just my take on things. Hope this helps.

Insanity · #3 08-05-2004, 05:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
On the flop, I would consider betting because villain might have some draw as the board is really draw heavy, or an overpair. If one of those draw cards hit, your action could be killed,...

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel I like the draw heavy board cause I beat almost all draws. I like the flush and straight draw cause both give me potential great payoffs if they hit. I agree an over pair is scary but with a min preflop rasie. I put him on AK or suited paint cards. Definatly not on a pocket pair, would you agree?

Garland · #4 08-05-2004, 05:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
River: ($7.50) 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4, BB raises to $8, Hero folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think for the price he's asking you to pay, you have to call this last bet because the way it played out, he's more likely to have a piece of the flop and caught two pair, hopefully worse than yours.

[ QUOTE ]
River: ($13.10) J (2 players)
BB bets $3, Hero raises to $10, BB raises to $23.6 (All-In), Hero calls $12.35 (All-In).

Final Pot: $59.05

Again I made stupid preflop calls, but now I've landed monsters (or at least one). What should I do and how should I have played these from the flop on. I really need advice. Results will be posted later. Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you're getting away from this hand, but if I were you, I'd raise the flop big. If someone is on a straight draw or flush draw, there's nothing better than making them pay to draw dead! You can also get a sense of where they are on the flop. Believe me, an overpair is not folding to a raise on a draw heavy flop. In fact you're hoping he'll raise so you can reraise. But if I were you, I'd try to get my money in on the flop or turn. I'm pretty sure you have this won, but I don't want overcards to scare me otherwise.

I don't play the 6-max NL game, but like anything else, you have to play more hands and your calls preflop aren't necessarily bad. It's how you decide to play them after the flops that will define your stack.

Garland

gergery · #5 08-05-2004, 07:08 PM

Hand 1: I raise preflop to my standard raise $2. I raise $2 on flop with what is very likely the best hand. On turn, I raise the pot. But I like to do this with a wider variety of hands, so my opponent is hard put to figure out what I’ve got. I fold to hard reraises except with the twopair, where calling is good against weak Party fish.

Hand 2: Easy fold every time from UTG+1. Maybe with loose passive table I might limp once in a while, or if table is weak/tight I’ll raise to my standard $2. On flop I raise to $2. You will win the vast majority of time now, so get more money in. You only make big money on this hand when a second best hand is made, so with spades and straight draws or overpairs, I want to charge them something to call but not too much, and I want trip 8s to reraise me. I raise to $2 on flop should price in most hands here while still building the pot. On turn, I raise. Trip 8s, pocket 77 or flushes should call. If you lost on river its bad luck, cards happen.

Insanity · #6 08-05-2004, 09:34 PM

Hand 1:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 max, 4 handed)

SB ($43.77)
BB ($25)
UTG ($25.83)
Hero ($42.40)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, Hero calls $0.50, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $1, SB folds, BB calls $1.

Turn: ($3.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2, BB calls $2.

River: ($7.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4, BB raises to $8, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $19.50

BB doesn't show.
Outcome: BB wins $19.50.

Hand 2:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 max, 5 handed)

Button ($43.72)
SB ($23.65)
BB ($29.40)
UTG ($24.88)
Hero ($28.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, Hero calls $0.50, Button folds, SB completes, BB raises to $1, Hero calls $0.50, SB calls $0.50.

Flop: ($3) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.5, Hero calls $0.50, SB calls $0.50.

Turn: ($4.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $4.3, Hero calls $4.30, SB folds.

River: ($13.10) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $3, Hero raises to $10, BB raises to $23.6 (All-In), Hero calls $12.35 (All-In).

Final Pot: $59.05

BB shows Js Jc (full house, jacks full of eights).
Hero shows 8h 7c (full house, eights full of sevens).
Outcome: BB wins $59.05.