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Old 08-22-2004, 07:47 AM
Coilean Coilean is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 384
Default Re: 88 100-200 hand

[ QUOTE ]
Also, look at the hands that might 3-bet you on the turn. [...] if the BB is a very good player, his hands he is 3-betting you with might also be quite large. By that I mean hands like AA-JJ, a J, flush, and even hands like TT,99,88 might.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't the BB also have to 3-bet the turn (and then bet the river as well) with some hands that do not beat 88 for us to get "outplayed" when trying Ray's line here? Otherwise, we can safely check fold the river after calling the 3-bet on the turn without losing anything beyond the 3 bets we were willing to commit anyways, and may even wind up picking up an extra bet here and there when we draw out.

A check behind on the turn with the QxTd type hands seems more of a threat to our EV to me than getting 3-bet, but at least is limited to losing a partial bet against a specific set of hands, as I don't see the BB folding many (if any) correct odds draws to beat an 88 if we do bet the turn (which could become a pot sized catastrophe otherwise). So maybe it is mostly a question of how often you get off the turn check raise against a worse hand (that either calls down, or maybe better yet, folds with some outs) versus how often you wind up giving a free look at the river to the QxTd type hands?

Personally, I'm like you and generally go for the nearly guaranteed flop check raise followed by turn bet, but the turn check raise line is certainly an interesting option, and should at least be a good way to mix up your play, if not a better play in itself (which I can't say with any certainty).
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