Crap from SB, all streets debatable

Redd · #1 10-02-2005, 12:05 PM

All of my opponents are the usual 1/2 suspects for 1/2 6m (exceptionally loose pf, will call any single bet with the nut low) . I'm amazed MP and CO can work a mouse; they're like 90VPIP ea. BB is new to the table but seems aggressive pre and post over a small sample size. I'm not sure if I can bet-fold the river safely here. I'm curious about everyone's opinions on all streets, including the preflop play.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB raises, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, MP folds, CO folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (8 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

#2 10-02-2005, 12:10 PM

I call it down as well.

I think in the long run this scenario is +EV to call down.

@bsolute_luck · #3 10-02-2005, 12:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure if I can bet-fold the river safely here

[/ QUOTE ]

this was gonna be my question. the rest i play the same, but i'm really tempted to put another bet or c/r somewhere because villain would think you have a lot of hands besides an Ace and would play premium hands the same way.

MrWookie47 · #4 10-02-2005, 01:11 PM

I'm not confident that BB would raise a hand we beat here. I might check this flop and see what the other guys do in response to BB's inevitable bet.

Redd · #5 10-02-2005, 01:25 PM

That was my biggest concern and IMO the flop is the most debatable street. But even if the BB would never raise a hand that we beat (which I don't think is the case), there's a good chance he'll just call the flop with 2 outs. From my standpoint during the flop lead there was a chance that I wouldn't be raised at all and a chance that a worse hand would raise me. And the pot is getting larger at this point.

The other reason I didn't want to check is because the 1/2 donks will peel with all sorts of crap for a single bet (on top of the few legitimate drawing hands out there in this size pot), and the flop could quite easily go (Hero checks)-bet-call-call with all worse hands, putting Hero in a tough place.

MrWookie47 · #6 10-02-2005, 01:29 PM

What about checking the flop, and if you are not HU by the turn, donkbetting? I'm not sure about this line, just tossing it out for discussion.

Redd · #7 10-02-2005, 01:39 PM

It seems like we're waiting because we don't know how to handle a flop raise here. So does the donkbet help us know how to handle a turn raise? A donk would look a little more like a shot at the pot to an aggressive Villain so I'm still unsure if we can get away from a turn raise. We may still be stuck calling down, this time for an extra SB.

Aaron W. · #8 10-02-2005, 01:48 PM

Don't bet the flop. Just wait to see what develops.

Redd · #9 10-02-2005, 01:53 PM

Aaron, what's your flop and turn plan if the flop goes check-bet-call-call-Hero...?

MrWookie47 · #10 10-02-2005, 02:07 PM

Actually, I have decided I hate my turn donk suggestion. It's pretty terrible. However, I think we have no need to fear a better A from MP or CO if it goes bet-call-call with the exception of a slowplayed A4 or A9. AT is sometimes a PFR, and AJ+ are very frequently raised preflop. Thus, in the case of bet-call-call, then the only A we need to fear is any A in the hands of BB, or a turn raise from the two donks. If it goes bet-call-call, I'm calling and checking the turn, again calling one back to me. For the river, I think we can bet if it's HU, or check and call if it's not (overcalling what is likely to be a weak hand that will pad the pot for the times we're dominated).