On flush draws one-carded and third-nut

[Redd]

The following hand exemplifies my confusion with one-card flush draws. The entire table is loose and passive preflop the turn bettor is fairly aggressive postflop and the turn caller is fairly passive.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP calls, Button calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls, Button calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks...

My turn thinking is that I didn't want to pay 2 bets to get to the river, that I doubted I could semibluff them both out with any frequency, and the possiblity that it would just get checked through.

My river thinking was that the turn bettor would bet or fold worse hands but raise better ones. I was planning to call or overcall because a three-bet would suck donkey-balls.

Critiques?

Also, if you bet anywhere, what's the lowest heart that you would play the same way with?

[NateDog]

The clarkmeister theorem: (loosely paraphrased)

When the 4th flush card hits the board, and you are OOP, bet it every time.

[MrWookie47]

That theorem also applies to only HU. Here, I still bet for value.

I check raise the river here.

[Shillx]

Bad river check. Anytime that you make a flush (even when not HU) you should almost always bet the river if you intend to call one back. The problem with checking (as usual) is that they will not be betting as many hands as they will be calling with. The Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is certainly high enough to bet for value here. The rest of the hand looks good.

Brad

I play it exactly the same.
A value bet on the end HU I can see (both if I have no flush [better hands will fold] and if I have Q+ [worse hands will call]) but into 2 villians I don't.
Betting into 2 villians, I'm guessing only T,J,K,A flushes are playing. You win 1BB from T and J but you're probably losing 2BB to both K and A.

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with checking (as usual) is that they will not be betting as many hands as they will be calling with.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm probably wrong, but I see it the other way around in this situation.
eg. if it's checked to button, I think he's much more likely to bet the 7:hearts: than he is to call with it.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
The clarkmeister theorem: (loosely paraphrased)

When the 4th flush card hits the board, and you are OOP, bet it every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, we're 3-handed here so clark's is out the window. You, Wookie, and Brad are right about the river check though, it ended up getting checked through.

[TomBrooks]

This is six max, I'd be more aggressive and less likely to give credit for a flush than full ring.

TURN: Bet. Semi-bluff with 15 outs.

RIVER: Bet. In six max I think 3rd nut flush is pretty good.

[Redd]

So the next question is:

Assuming you got to the turn with the same action with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], what's the lowest x you would be willing to check-call the turn, then lead this river with?

edit: because I'm an idiot.