Good Check Behind?

[me454555]

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Why are we giving a free card to someone who makes really bad calls? Why aren't we allowing him to play like a retard and make mistakes?

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b/c he not making a mistake by calling w/a draw. He could easily be a head and our hand isn't worth that much. If he's got a flush draw w/out an ace he's got 15 outs to beat us (w/an ace he's still got 12), any oesd has at least 11 outs to beat us, and gutters have 7+ to beat us. This guy wouldn't be making a huge mistake by calling our flop bet w/any draw and obviously would be correct to call w/any pair.

By checking here and betting the turn if checked to, we get to 1) see the turn card which could help us by pairing our hand or picking up an OESD and 2) make UTG make a mistake by calling w/his 7 outers

[Poldi]

flop is a very standard bet imo

[spydog]

I bet this flop about 75% of the time. I probably check if I've been getting checkraised a lot or if I haven't shown down any winners and I think I'm likely to get called by 2 players. I think the main reason to bet a flop like this is to get HU on the turn so that your turn bet can be profitable (plus the chance you improve).

[mex78753]

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Checking behind is fine here. W/the flop containing 2 cards in the playable zone and both a strait and flush draw, I think your folding equity is minimal. Given the fact that UTG is a habitual checkraiser and will checkraise any draw/pair checking behind is probably best. There are many cards that can help your hand on the turn and seeing that turn card should be important to you.

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well the reason I agree with him is cus utg will c'r light and I have no problem 3 betting hu against the idiot but mp will cc really light with b.s draws and even Ace high at times. That's why I didnt see as worth it. If I 3 bet the pot after he c'r and mp cc's (almost a guarantee on such a draw heavy board like this) I'd just be pumping up someones draw and giving them more equity for their good draws.

Against 2 tag's I see where this board has much more fold equity but since I got a station who luvs seeing turns and a maniac who luvs to c'r, I figure I've got an explosive combination so why light the fuse?

my 2 pesos

[mex78753]

Another thing I forgot to mention is that Mp will sometimes c'r me with top pair or just check/call with top pair (since I raised pre-flop c'r is unlikely with just top pair). So that's another thing to consider. So I might already be behind.

I like to hear more arguements against my check tho.

tks

[me454555]

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flop is a very standard bet imo

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Why? Do you really think any of these guys will fold? The board is ultra coordinated and any 2 cards has the proper odds to call. Add in the distinct possibilty of getting c/red and I like this bet even less

P.S. - not to pick on you b/c others have done it as well but one liners like "this is a very standard bet" or "bet the flop" suck and add very little insight into the hand

I think you bet the flop because you might still have the best hand (since its 3 handed), you have some chance to make them fold, and you dont want to give flush draws free cards.

Also, if you raise preflop then check behind on the flop, you are showing a lot of weakness and give them the initiative to take the hand from you. If you frequently bet here, you can keep them guessing as to what your hand is.

[jt1]

Two reasons not to bet this board:

1) draw heavy boards decrease your chances of winning

2) CO won't bluff the turn but will call the flop

3) UTG may check raise with the best hand, forcing CO to drop his b/d draw and forcing hero to call down

Reasons to bet

1)UTG may check-raise with a worse and fold out CO's b/d drawing hands.

2)Hero may get it HU with the best hand

Generally, I prefer betting into 2 players even on a coordinated board, because you only need to be ahead like 1 out of 100 times since you'll improve 13% of the time anyway. But when one of the players never bluffs and calls most flops, and furthermore, is in between me and the guy who can push me off the best hand (and that guy is first to act) then I prefer checking.

[adamstewart]

Bet the flop. (I think I'd bet this flop 99% when I play - the only other 1% would be if I'd been terribly LAG the last few hands and people have started to notice).


Then, check the turn through.


Reasses on the river.



Adam

[Poldi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
flop is a very standard bet imo

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Why? Do you really think any of these guys will fold? The board is ultra coordinated and any 2 cards has the proper odds to call. Add in the distinct possibilty of getting c/red and I like this bet even less

P.S. - not to pick on you b/c others have done it as well but one liners like "this is a very standard bet" or "bet the flop" suck and add very little insight into the hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Both players have to fold 1 time in 6 to make the bet profitable just by itself. But this is not the only concern, if it was just for this reason I probably check as T9-boards hit a lot of limping hands.
What happens a lot more often is that one of them folds, the other calls and you take it down with a turn bet (depending on the card of course). If only one sees the turn, he has to fold only 1 in 4 times to it. Add to that the possibility that he calls, misses his draw and you win with a free showdown or that you hit your pair on the river (maybe getting another bet).
The bet also might get you a free card (if a J hits for example, you probably want to use it).

Your hand might be best on the flop, by checking the flop you lose your initiative and pretty much forfeit the pot unless the turn card is good for you. If they donk you dont know where you are and you dont want to call down the big streets in a small pot with A-high.

Lets assume both called your flop bet and the K comes on the turn just like in the real hand. Most of the time they both check to you. Now you can use your position and decide based on your opponents whether it is more profitable to semi-bluff at the K (its a good bluffing card as they cant have 2 overcards anymore, you raised preflop so they are scared of you holding one and it is less likely that they have one because they didnt raise PF) or take the free card. The decision would be based on your feeling how likely it is that one of them is going to CR you and how likely it would be to take the pot down there.

To sum it up, I think the pros of a flopbet outweigh the cons even if UTG CRed you in some hands before.