Party 30/60, what to do with TT?

kbfc · #1 08-25-2005, 03:28 AM

10-handed, UTG, a good ole 45/15 sorta player, raises. Immediately after him, a fairly new player who I don't have stats on 3-bets. A few folds to me, and I have TT in the middle somewhere.

Now, I'm going to assume a lot of you will favor the instamuck here. I doubt that can be very wrong, if wrong at all. The question, though, is if there is a profitable way to play the hand after choosing one of the other 2 options.

I thought to myself, "hrm, let's run a little experiment," and called the 3 cold. Folded back to UTG who calls, and we see a flop of 3 unsuited rags, in a 10.5 SB pot. UTG leads out, and the next guy raises. Now what?

I've purposely left out an important bit of information, because in my multitabling stupidity, I didn't notice it until after the hand was over. I'll repeat it below in white:
--><font color="white">The 45/15 UTG guy was all-in after calling the flop raise.</font> <---
Given this info, does anything change?

DcifrThs · #2 08-25-2005, 03:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
10-handed, UTG, a good ole 45/15 sorta player, raises. Immediately after him, a fairly new player who I don't have stats on 3-bets. A few folds to me, and I have TT in the middle somewhere.

Now, I'm going to assume a lot of you will favor the instamuck here. I doubt that can be very wrong, if wrong at all. The question, though, is if there is a profitable way to play the hand after choosing one of the other 2 options.

I thought to myself, "hrm, let's run a little experiment," and called the 3 cold. Folded back to UTG who calls, and we see a flop of 3 unsuited rags, in a 10.5 SB pot. UTG leads out, and the next guy raises. Now what?

I've purposely left out an important bit of information, because in my multitabling stupidity, I didn't notice it until after the hand was over. I'll repeat it below in white:
--><font color="white">The 45/15 UTG guy was all-in after calling the flop raise.</font> <---
Given this info, does anything change?

[/ QUOTE ]

easiest preflop cap ever.

-Barron

DpR · #3 08-25-2005, 03:46 AM

Given the circumstances 3 bet the flop. Preflop capping is probably better to ensure to limit the field to the 3 of you, but calling isnt so terrible either if you think everyone is folding already.

kbfc · #4 08-25-2005, 03:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
easiest preflop cap ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that before or after reading the whited-out part? I'm interested that you say it's an easy cap. I was discussing this hand for awhile with a friend of mine who also plays the 30 regularly, and his initial instinct was to cap as well. After talking it over for awhile, though, we both thought it wasn't quite clear.

What is your plan for postflop play after you put in the cap? This is obviously aimed at the majority of the times where you don't flop a ten, or something strong like 789.

DpR · #5 08-25-2005, 03:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
easiest preflop cap ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is your plan for postflop play after you put in the cap? This is obviously aimed at the majority of the times where you don't flop a ten, or something strong like 789.

[/ QUOTE ]

Play as if you have the best hand until someone does somethihng to make you think otherwise.

DcifrThs · #6 08-25-2005, 03:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
easiest preflop cap ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that before or after reading the whited-out part? I'm interested that you say it's an easy cap. I was discussing this hand for awhile with a friend of mine who also plays the 30 regularly, and his initial instinct was to cap as well. After talking it over for awhile, though, we both thought it wasn't quite clear.

What is your plan for postflop play after you put in the cap? This is obviously aimed at the majority of the times where you don't flop a ten, or something strong like 789.

[/ QUOTE ]

i haven't and didn't even see there was a whited out part.

i got to here "10-handed, UTG, a good ole 45/15 sorta player, raises. Immediately after him, a fairly new player who I don't have stats on 3-bets. A few folds to me, and I have TT in the middle somewhere. "

and replied. i will now go look at it.

Barron

kbfc · #7 08-25-2005, 03:56 AM

Is it your experience that there exist players in this game who have different cold-calling ranges for 3 and 4 bets? It seems to me that someone who sees 3 bets and thinks AJo is good enough isn't going to be dissuaded by the 4th bet.

Perhaps someone tight now folds JJ or AKo, but with only a few players left to act, how likely is that parlay to occur (someone having that hand + folding it to 4, but not 3 bets)?

Am I completely off here? I'm relatively new to the 30/60 (just under 10k hands), so maybe I just haven't seen enough.

DcifrThs · #8 08-25-2005, 03:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Is it your experience that there exist players in this game who have different cold-calling ranges for 3 and 4 bets? It seems to me that someone who sees 3 bets and thinks AJo is good enough isn't going to be dissuaded by the 4th bet.

Perhaps someone tight now folds JJ or AKo, but with only a few players left to act, how likely is that parlay to occur (someone having that hand + folding it to 4, but not 3 bets)?

Am I completely off here? I'm relatively new to the 30/60 (just under 10k hands), so maybe I just haven't seen enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

you haven't seen the thing here yet.

the first raiser could have so many hands its sick.

the 2nd raiser very likely knows this and is isolating.

TT is so likely to be good and maybe even dominating the 2nd raise that you must must play.

you therefore want to maximize your EV. doing this needs to limit the field.

therefore you cap.

Barron

kbfc · #9 08-25-2005, 04:31 AM

Clearly the 3bettor could be isolating, but with the exception of smaller pairs (how low is reasonable for the average 30 player here? 88? 66? 22?), I'm still not in great shape against his hand range. A lot of the times I'm looking at 2 opponents playing unpaired big cards. At least 1 overcard to my TT is going to flop most of the time. And how good do I feel getting action on an undercard flop, given that fits right into set range for those pairs I had dominated before?

All that aside, though, you talk about limiting the field. What hands are people folding for 4, but not 3 bets here? (The big blind might now call with any pair, but I don't think that's a bad thing).

steveyz · #10 08-25-2005, 04:42 AM

Ax, smaller pocket pairs are all very likely. You are only a dog to 4 hands, a coinflip to many others, and dominating many others yet.

Plenty of hands (esp from the blinds) will fold to the cap but might call a 3-bet. This includes hands like AQo, ATs, KQs, etc etc. No, you won't be folding a better hand. But you will likely be folding many hands that may be slight dogs to you heads up, but in this situation take away a lot of your equity (like KQ). And in this large pot, you want as much equity as you can get and well worth the extra 1 sb investment.