Preflop dogma

[Dex]

"Always open for a raise."

Say you're UTG. What is the point of open raising with hands like:

KJo (or even KQo)
A9s
KTs
QJs

Worse hands fold. Better hands 3-bet. Then you either miss the flop or hit a flop you like and get screwed. In addition, for something like QJs, haven't you just shot your own implied odds in the foot? Perhaps you would have folded QJo but raised QJs. But what good is being suited now? What have you accomplished?

If you have KQo, do you really want KJo, KTo, QJo, QTo to fold?

Discuss.

[Lmn55d]

well sir, the beautiful thing is that worse hands don't fold. The vast majority of online players at these levels (I have experience up to 10/20 6max) aren't folding KJ,KT, QJ to a raise. They are calling with k2, Q5s, 34, etc. This is why there is so much value in raising KQo UTG. Same goes for KJo, A9s, KTs, and QJs. Obviously there isn't as much value in raising QJs as there is in raising KQo, but many winning short-handed players would agree that there is value in raising it utg in most 6handed games.

Other than pushing an equity edge, raising has some other advantages too. It gives you initiative which can allow you to take down the pot on the flop or on the turn. With hands like QJs, KTs, etc. it ties people to the pot by making it bigger. So if you flop a sweet draw, they stay in and pay you off.

[sthief09]

1. because you get called by worse hands preflop
2. because you get called by wrose hands postflop
3. because you can steal the button and get it hu or 3-way with the blinds with position and initiative
4. because your hand is better than most hands your opponents will get.
5. becasue these hands play best in shorthanded pots and raising keeps it that way.

in a game with good players, you might not want to raise with these hands. but against bad opponents you want to let them call yu when you have a good hand. then you can take their money postflop.

[Trix]

[ QUOTE ]
Worse hands fold. Better hands 3-bet

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meh, dont think this is true.

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps you would have folded QJo but raised QJs. But what good is being suited now?

[/ QUOTE ]

The line between what is generally playable and what isn´t have to be somewhere..

[ QUOTE ]
If you have KQo, do you really want KJo, KTo, QJo, QTo to fold?


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Not really, but I would like to play in position or win the blinds. Also having the initiative is nice.

Actually if you limp KJ, someone raise you from the button with a hand you dominate, then I think his EV may be higher anyway, as he wins whenever you miss.

Yes I want them all to fold as much as possible, that way I get the blinds.

Also, if they "figure out" that you are stealing, you get even more action from your good hands. They take the minimum from you and you get the maximum from them.