3-bet J10s against good player?

[wackjob]

I agree that a lot of people overvalue J10s in the SH game. Standard poker theory says that suited connectors do well in a multi-way pot, not HU. J10s is seriously dominated by most TAG's UTG, UTG+1 opening ranges and 3-betting with a hand like this will almost always get you HU in a domianted position. Easy fold every time for me.

[Victor]

i fold here.

[cartman]

Hi Wynton,

I think you can be very conservative with your preflop 3-betting and do just fine. These games are very loose and that means for the most part you would be well advised to only 3-bet when you have some showdown value. I suspect that you wouldn't be going far (if any) wrong if you never 3-bet with less than K high unless the game is very shorthanded or the raiser folds very easily postflop. You can probably find that type of opponent with about the same frequency as you find an albino tiger.

Cartman

if you're going to make this 3-bet it is a variation play and should be treated as such.
you are not currently ahead of villain's range, and your position cannot make up for this completely. if you 3-bet this every time, a "pretty good player" will catch on.
i would like it more if you had a lower suited connector, as at least that way you are less likely to be dominated. it's not as though jack-high is winning any showdowns here.

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
if you're going to make this 3-bet it is a variation play and should be treated as such.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely. I probably didn't emphasize this particular "edge" in enough in setting up the hypothetical, but it really was meant to be implied.

Like I said at the outset, my "default play" against this opponent is mucking, not 3-betting (though I can imagine some tables where calling could work). But I was imagining a situation where I had set up the play by playing relatively tight and, more important, not 3-betting this particular opponent previously.

I should also admit, though, the fact that I did not mention this particular condition at the outset is probably proof of some lazy thinking. In fact, the entire situation seems representative of a certain poker stage I'm at.

I feel like I'm beginning to get to the point of intuitively sensing some edges, but not yet to the point of understanding them thoroughly enough to articulate them.