couple of newbie NL ?'s

fireman664 · #1 08-10-2005, 11:11 AM

OK, been playing limit ($1-$2 to $3-$6 6max) for the last couple of years, mixing in a few tournies (for fun). Lately I have been dabling in the party $100 NL games. I notice from my poker journal that I am winning about 80% of my NL sessions, compared to 55% of my limit sessions (+1.8bb/100 at limit with a large sample size).
(ps my sessions are generally about 300-500 hands on avg., and I might play 1-5 sessions a day... I dont play as much as alot of players)

so

#1 Is this normal? or is my sample size just to small. I have read that some of the best winning cash game NL players win 80-90% of thier sessions, so it seems like this may be a way for me to limit fluctuation, even a the cost of giving some profit away for now since I am more proficient at limit.

#2. using poker tracker, my winrate in BB/100, is that big blinds, or doubling the big blind for a big bet like limit? (sorry for not using the search for this, or doing the math, as I am sure its there, but I gotta run in a sec and thought someone would be nice since this isnt the zoo....zing!).

#3. if I data mine, what sort of numbers do you guys look for in buddy listing players? (with limit I would data mine, then look for LPP...but I have seen some players who are real loose, but play well enough post flop that I would be better off finding another fish, and have run accross a few that see ALOT of flops, yet avoid alot of trouble real well.

Thanks
gotta run

later

djoyce003 · #2 08-10-2005, 11:18 AM

1) variance is much lower than limit.
2) in poker tracker your win rate is still big bets so at NL 100 on Party, your poker tracker win rate would be assuming a $2 big bet. so 10 ptbb/100 is the equivalent of 20 big blinds.
3) I look for people that see lots of flops. Also anyone on your auto-rate that is a calling station is great. Anyone you play against that calls pot sized bets on draws is also very good to buddy list. Lots of people will call al $3 flop bet but the ones that call the $20 turn bets are the ones i'm referring to. People that are tight, but can't fold top pair are also worth playing with.

jhall23 · #3 08-10-2005, 11:27 AM

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3) I look for people that see lots of flops. Also anyone on your auto-rate that is a calling station is great. Anyone you play against that calls pot sized bets on draws is also very good to buddy list. Lots of people will call al $3 flop bet but the ones that call the $20 turn bets are the ones i'm referring to. People that are tight, but can't fold top pair are also worth playing with.

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These are pretty good. In general I think it would be harder to buddy list someone in NL just based on stats alone (though I don't play much limit) since many styles can win especially in the short-handed games. Post flop agression can be misleading because they might always be min-betting etc. There are of course some exceptions like crazy high VP$IP of 75+ that see lots of show downs.

To add to djoyce a really helpful one for me is to identify the people that not only play too-many hands, but are total tell-bag's from their bets. Some people bet weak with weak hands and strong with strong or vice versa and are really consistent. I buddy list these and take notes on their tendencies.

djoyce003 · #4 08-10-2005, 11:46 AM

great point. Speaking of that, funny story. This clown last night tells me i'm on his buddy list at NL 6 max. I believe it too cuz he pops up at every table i'm on. I guess he looks for people with 22/12 stats cuz he thinks he has some advantage...not sure. That or he knows my table selection is good. Anyway, he minbets small pocket pairs every single time he gets them. So now whenever he minbets, I raise in position, everyone folds but him, I bet high card flops, and he folds his little pair...if he raises or calls I know he has the set and I fold. I've clobbered him for probably 50 big bets doing this and he still hasn't caught on.

BigF · #5 08-10-2005, 12:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
great point. Speaking of that, funny story. This clown last night tells me i'm on his buddy list at NL 6 max. I believe it too cuz he pops up at every table i'm on. I guess he looks for people with 22/12 stats cuz he thinks he has some advantage...not sure. That or he knows my table selection is good. Anyway, he minbets small pocket pairs every single time he gets them. So now whenever he minbets, I raise in position, everyone folds but him, I bet high card flops, and he folds his little pair...if he raises or calls I know he has the set and I fold. I've clobbered him for probably 50 big bets doing this and he still hasn't caught on.

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So I assume you guys are buddy buddy now?

fireman664 · #6 08-10-2005, 12:46 PM

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[ QUOTE ]

3) I look for people that see lots of flops. Also anyone on your auto-rate that is a calling station is great. Anyone you play against that calls pot sized bets on draws is also very good to buddy list. Lots of people will call al $3 flop bet but the ones that call the $20 turn bets are the ones i'm referring to. People that are tight, but can't fold top pair are also worth playing with.

[/ QUOTE ]

These are pretty good. In general I think it would be harder to buddy list someone in NL just based on stats alone (though I don't play much limit) since many styles can win especially in the short-handed games. Post flop agression can be misleading because they might always be min-betting etc. There are of course some exceptions like crazy high VP$IP of 75+ that see lots of show downs.

To add to djoyce a really helpful one for me is to identify the people that not only play too-many hands, but are total tell-bag's from their bets. Some people bet weak with weak hands and strong with strong or vice versa and are really consistent. I buddy list these and take notes on their tendencies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks guys....your points kinda hit what I had figured out on my own, but wanted some feed back to know for sure.

Seems like the best way to find buddies is through play, but I will also be trying it through PT. The betting patterns is a big one for me, since my best skill in poker is hand reading. which is why I think I may move to NL full time. Like they say, in limit, you play by the strength of your hand, in NL you play according to the strength of your opponents hand.

Of course I could just be running really well over the last couple of months, and change my mind altogether when things level out.

Thanks for the info guys

OH, PS...I just read in "Ace ON The River", that Greenstein says over his poker career he has won 75% of his no limit sessions, compared to 58% of his limit sessions...and thats against the best in the world, so obviously if you have an ecdge, NL does seem to have less variance. For some reason this surprises me, but I guess it shouldnt.