Two personal beliefs and their consequences

Gravity causes apples to fall out of trees and ugly people don't have sex as often as pretty people.

What's that got to do with the price of tea in china?

[hmkpoker]

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<font color="blue"> This seems to me an unsatisfactory solution. What do I do? </font>

Design your life.

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Best answer yet. Good job.

[chezlaw]

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You still have two problems ( given that you can brush away quantum, that operates on every atom in the universe as 'small')
1) prove that determinism exists.
2) illustrate free will without determinism.

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How do you illustrate free will with determinism?? If determinism is the opposite of free will, why then would you want to prove free will while trying to prove determinism?? Still no one has given an example of making a choice that hasn't been influenced by past events.

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but free will and determinism are not opposites. Unless you can show 2) then free-will and determisim have nothing to do with each other.

I'm choosing to go to bed now.

chez

[hmkpoker]

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Gravity causes apples to fall out of trees and ugly people don't have sex as often as pretty people.

What's that got to do with the price of tea in china?

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what does this have to do with anything?

Free will and determinism are opposites. Free will implies you can make a choice; determinism denies a choice exists. I am wishing you a good night because I have no choice not to : )

My point was that those examples and his point were not on topic.

[imported_luckyme]

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#1) What else can be?
#2) Free will is impossible.

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That's your rock that you've been building this theory on "what else can it be?". Er,uh, did anyone mention quantum effects and/or humean issues. ( have you been listening in on the ID argumente "I can't explain it, so it must be Y". cheeesh. :-)

2) you say "FW is impossible" .. define it, then we'll see.

If you're going to claim Free Will is impossible because of determnism then you have to show there is determinism else the only obstacle you've placed in the way of FW is unproven.

If you are going to say XY is impossible then you have to tell us what XY is so we can see if we can overcome the claimed obstacles.

Free will is the ability to choose between options. This is impossible.

Choice implies that either option can happen. This cannot be. There is nothing that could allow one option to happen instead of the other given exactly the same circumstances. We are controlled by our minds, which are in turn controlled by the laws of physics.

I have said this a couple of times already.

[Stu Pidasso]

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If determinism is the opposite of free will, why then would you want to prove free will while trying to prove determinism?? Still no one has given an example of making a choice that hasn't been influenced by past events.


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Laplace's Demon knows all the facts about the past and present and all the natural laws that govern our world, and uses this knowledge to foresee the future, down to every detail.

LaPlace's Demon never lies.

LaPlace's Demon says to you, "I know you are going to eat this bowl of ice cream".

If you could eat that bowl of ice cream but decide not to then determinism is false.

I'm sure I could abstain from eating that bowl of ice cream.

Stu

I agree with you up until your summation. There is no way you could eat avoid eating the ice cream. In addition to this, if you know all the facts past and present and all the forces, you can always predict the future.