75-150 Taj Hand

[Jeffage]

Playing in a very good 75-150 game at Taj Mahal. Full game. I open in middle position with A10o. Folded to the button, a pretty solid(and aggro) pro, who reraises. We see the flop heads up. Flop comes AJ3r(suits don't matter). I check, he bets, I call. The turn is a 7. I check, he bets, I call. The river is a 5. I check. Comments? I know the 2plus2 default here is to bet the river. But on this hand, I'm not sure...if he has AJ, AQ, AK, then I get raised (and I don't think I can pay off a raise). On the other hand, if he has something like 10-10, he is probably too smart to payoff. I probably have a 50-50 shot of getting paid off if he has a jack. And he has enough game that a bluff raise isn't entirely plausible (since he thinks I might valuebet any ace here and be capable of folding to his raise). Comments?

Jeff

[arod15]

[ QUOTE ]
Playing in a very good 75-150 game at Taj Mahal. Full game. I open in middle position with A10o. Folded to the button, a pretty solid(and aggro) pro, who reraises. We see the flop heads up. Flop comes AJ3r(suits don't matter). I check, he bets, I call. The turn is a 7. I check, he bets, I call. The river is a 5. I check. Comments? I know the 2plus2 default here is to bet the river. But on this hand, I'm not sure...if he has AJ, AQ, AK, then I get raised (and I don't think I can pay off a raise). On the other hand, if he has something like 10-10, he is probably too smart to payoff. I probably have a 50-50 shot of getting paid off if he has a jack. And he has enough game that a bluff raise isn't entirely plausible (since he thinks I might valuebet any ace here and be capable of folding to his raise). Comments?

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Not enough info. Stack sizes what did u raise to preflop what did you bet on the flop turn this is really to vauge....(i prob spelled that wrong)

[DoomSlice]

Limit.

[Jeffage]

Look what forum you're in...this is limit hold em.

Jeff

[TheBusiness]

Jeff,

I don't like A10 from middle position in a full game for precisely this reason, so I'd muck preflop. But since you didn't, you need to find out earlier whether your kicker is any good by betting or checkraising the flop. But given how you played it I would probably check-call the river, although I'd advise making a decision about your hand before that point.

[Jeffage]

I think when folded to you in mid position, A10 becomes a routine open raise (there were three people to act behind me). Also, I don't see any purpose to checkraising the flop. If he's bluffing, I don't want to stop him. If he's strong, I really don't want to hemmorage chips.

Jeff

[afish]

I think the check is reasonable, especially because you are scared that a worse hand may raise a river bet.

[lil feller]

[ QUOTE ]
Jeff,

I don't like A10 from middle position in a full game for precisely this reason, so I'd muck preflop. But since you didn't, you need to find out earlier whether your kicker is any good by betting or checkraising the flop. But given how you played it I would probably check-call the river, although I'd advise making a decision about your hand before that point.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is horrible advice. TOP basic stuff. We don't want to find out what our kicker is worth, for a couple of reasons.

First is that to do so will cost us roughly the same amount of bets as just showing our hand down.

Second, by trying to "figure out where we are" we now let the button know EXACTLY where we are, and prevent him from making any mistakes on the big bet streets.

Third trying to approach the hand this way against this sort of opponent gives him an opportunity to force us into a pot sized mistake with a "free showdown" turn raise.

I think preflop this is an easy raise, you just happend to get iso 3 bet by a good player. That sucks. Don't make it worse by giving him a chance to out play you.

I check/call the whole way, and feel good doing so. Hopefully he bets the river and if nothing else you get to see his hand.

thoughts?

lf

[TheBusiness]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Jeff,

I don't like A10 from middle position in a full game for precisely this reason, so I'd muck preflop. But since you didn't, you need to find out earlier whether your kicker is any good by betting or checkraising the flop. But given how you played it I would probably check-call the river, although I'd advise making a decision about your hand before that point.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is horrible advice. TOP basic stuff. We don't want to find out what our kicker is worth, for a couple of reasons.

First is that to do so will cost us roughly the same amount of bets as just showing our hand down.

Second, by trying to "figure out where we are" we now let the button know EXACTLY where we are, and prevent him from making any mistakes on the big bet streets.

Third trying to approach the hand this way against this sort of opponent gives him an opportunity to force us into a pot sized mistake with a "free showdown" turn raise.

I think preflop this is an easy raise, you just happend to get iso 3 bet by a good player. That sucks. Don't make it worse by giving him a chance to out play you.

I check/call the whole way, and feel good doing so. Hopefully he bets the river and if nothing else you get to see his hand.

thoughts?

lf

[/ QUOTE ]

So your solution is to raise preflop, get isolated, and then call down the whole way when there is a pretty damn good chance he has AK, AQ, AJ or a flopped set. I think that is horrible advice.

And in response to your first point, if you checkraise the flop and villain 3-bets, you can safely fold and save yourself 1.5 BB.

[Jeffage]

There is also a good chance he'd 3-bet me with something like 66. Why would I want to stop him from continuing to bet that?

Jeff