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#1
05-08-2005, 05:18 PM
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Gigabet\'s HH and our SnG Strategy
I'm suprised there hasn't been more discussion on this matter, and I was hoping someone else would make this thread who may have more to say that I do.
It seems that our generally accepted bubble strategy is also accepted by Giga, but he clearly plays a different early game then most of us would ever dare advocate. It seems that Giga looks for situations in which he will have position on opponents, and plays very aggressively, regardless of his hand. I don't know if he puts them on a specific range, or actual hands, or if he has notes on the players to know who he can bluff off of what hand. What do you think? I assume he puts them on a range, and that he has notes on many players. One note I took from the HH is that you can risk a decent amount of chips to win a smaller amount, as long as the odds are there. For instance, raising on a steal in late position to t90, just to take the t45 in blinds. If they're gonna fold 80% of the time, why not take the +EV? even if it's small. In conclusion, I think to ignore the gift we were just given would be very silly of us. This HH challenges ideas that we don't even question. I'm sure that many plays made by Giga should not be recommended to those starting out, but if he is playing closer to optimally than I am, which he is, I wanna find out why. Let's discuss. -Jman 
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#3
05-08-2005, 05:30 PM
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Re: Gigabet\'s HH and our SnG Strategy
[ QUOTE ]
I'm suprised there hasn't been more discussion on this matter, and I was hoping someone else would make this thread who may have more to say that I do. It seems that our generally accepted bubble strategy is also accepted by Giga, but he clearly plays a different early game then most of us would ever dare advocate. [/ QUOTE ] I think you have to be a little careful about extrapolating from a single $15k Step 5 higher to what works in other games. Maybe this is gig's standard strategy, maybe it isn't. Maybe it was a smart and pronounced adjustment to intimidate players who were playing scared at these stakes. eastbay
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#4
05-08-2005, 05:37 PM
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Re: Gigabet\'s HH and our SnG Strategy
I agree that the HH was very interesting and provides some nice examples of why Gigabet is a dominant player.
[ QUOTE ] It seems that Giga looks for situations in which he will have position on opponents, and plays very aggressively, regardless of his hand. [/ QUOTE ] Definitely - he made a big post that touches on this a while back that I'm sure you've read. The thing that doesn't come through in the history is his reads. I can't imagine he's making those plays solely based on position - he had some great reads and they played out brilliantly throughout the tournament. Until we can make reads on the same level he does, these plays aren't going to work as well for "us." It's a skill worth practicing, for sure. We'll need it as we move up. In addition, that table was unlike the average table seen at the low to mid level SNGs. I'm sure he knew many of those players quite well and put that information to good use. Many of those players were at least somewhat thoughtful about the game, and are capable of laying down when Giga plays a hand just like he has AA - whether or not he actually has it that time.
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#5
05-08-2005, 05:38 PM
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Re: Gigabet\'s HH and our SnG Strategy
1. Playing the 15K players in a 100K first prize SNG is a lot different than playing a 22 or 55 or 109 or whatever. Gigabet also knows more about his opponents than anyone else, half because he plays against more regular players (as opposed to low limits where there are thousands) and he looks up what his opponents muck, and generally plays tons of hands and pay a lot of attention his opponents. I doubt he had an episode of South Park running in the background during the Step 5 higher. Like I do when I play.
2. This is just the basic question, which is more important, playing some small edge pots early or never opening yourself up to big losses and getting to the bubble intact most of the time. When I play NL cash games I push tons of small edges. When I play SNGs I don't. This is the crux of the question: Are SNG players using a common 2+2 strategy missing points on their ROI by not pushing small edges early? Discuss.
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#6
05-08-2005, 05:41 PM
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Re: Gigabet\'s HH and our SnG Strategy
[ QUOTE ]
I think you have to be a little careful about extrapolating from a single $15k Step 5 higher to what works in other games. Maybe this is gig's standard strategy, maybe it isn't. Maybe it was a smart and pronounced adjustment to intimidate players who were playing scared at these stakes. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with you that this is probably a bit different than his usual strategy. With the stakes being so high, and the payout structure being so top-heavy, accumulating chips early by bluffing becomes more important. However, I think there is plenty to take from this HH. Even with the stucture in mind, I'm sure many of us would never have considered some of the plays made. We shouldn't ignore this just because it makes our view of optimal SnG strategy more complex and because we might have to question our own advice. I was worried that was happening.
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#7
05-08-2005, 05:47 PM
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Re: Gigabet\'s HH and our SnG Strategy
[ QUOTE ]
which is more important, playing some small edge pots early or never opening yourself up to big losses [/ QUOTE ] The thing is, he never really opened himself up to big losses. The hand where he called the pf raise with (I believe) Q9o, and then reraised the flop (ATx) bet from 100 to 300, that was all he was risking. He wasn't, I assume, going to call any reraise or bet on later streets, unless a miracle hit. So he would've been left with enough stack to manouver. This is definitely pronounced in this tourney because of the payout stucture, but I still think it's important that we realize how little he's actually risking. It's a topic discussed in Reuben and Ciaffone's book, about threatening the opponents whole stack with only part of yours, because they have to worry about later streets. Early in the tourney is the time to do this because later, we actually have to risk our entire stack to threaten theirs.
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#9
05-08-2005, 05:52 PM
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Re: Gigabet\'s HH and our SnG Strategy
I know for sure that the moves he made re-raising the EP raiser on a bluff would not work 80% of the time at the $22s.
Essentially, what he's doing IMO is using his opponents knowledge of the gap theory, and some big nuts, to his advantage. I think what he's playing to is that the EP raiser knows he's supposed to know he has to have a big hand to raise from EP, therefore the EP raiser must put him on a monster hand. At the 22s, I always re-raise with a monster hand and the early raiser (as well as one or two more) almost always calls. Forget bluffing in this situation, because you're going to get called....
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#10
05-08-2005, 05:56 PM
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Re: Gigabet\'s HH and our SnG Strategy
He played very well - but he also got lucky at the points where he did expose himself slightly to chip loss.
For example... T6h hand - If he lost that, he woulda been back down to 1300-ish instead of 2400. KK vs AJ - Losing this would have killed his chances 44 vs K6 - I like this play because he has XL so outchipped that even if he does lose the coinflip, he can still easily win. The 2 previous hands, being 40/60 dog and a 70/30 favorite were the 2 hands that really allowed him to win. If he lost either of those 2, the tournament would have changed drastically. The play with the Q9 and the steal with 45 are classic plays or trapping a continuation bet/bluff. Nice job Blackjack
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