Being an "F*$%! IDIOT" with 87s

[W. Deranged]

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I fold preflop. If I raise the flop, I'm checking the turn because he is tricky and you have to call the checkraise. I think you could consider just calling the flop.

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I really don't like calling the flop. I think getting it heads up is quite important, especially before we've determined the PFR definitely has an A. Raising this flop is best if we plan to continue in the hand, and the pot is big enough to continue.

As for the turn, checking could be disastrous if villain has a hand like QQ/JJ and is planning to fold -- or if he has any hand with enough outs to beat us; until he c/r, we're not sure who's drawing and I think a bet is in order. The c/r sucks, but we have plenty of outs to call it.

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Best comment the guy gave me after the hand was played: "And you were raising!" I thought that was funny.

[Baloosh]

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This call is hardly run of the mill for me. But there was another loosish guy behind me, no one two aggro, and I figured that the EP poster and the limpers are never folding here. So I figured this hand would usually go 5-6 handed, and so I decided I'd gamble a little.

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Fair enough. You've managed to make a buddy for life from Villain... I'm sure he added you to his buddy list until he plays with you a while longer. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[toss]

Tell him you misclicked 4 times in a row.

[sweetjazz]

I think the preflop call is a losing play, but only by a little. Part of the reason is that your position relative to the preflop aggressor is poor for a drawing hand and you do not have much high card strength to win very many one pair hands.

On the flop, you are in a tough spot. With your five outer plus backdoor draws, you need to at least call and raising may be better.

On the turn, you must seriously consider taking a free card. I doubt villain will fold 99 here, so you have to hope that you either improve on the river or that he has a hand like KQ or KJ. The fact that he raises so much preflop means that you will sometimes have the best hand here, so betting the turn (probably with the intention of checking behind UI on the river) may be best.

Once you are check-raised, you must call and try to hit one of your outs. As you say, river is easy. Too bad he didn't bet the river, as it is hard to put you on a 7 there. Maybe he just had a lousy hand and his turn CR didn't make sense. Or he's just weak on the river.

If you cold-call a raise PF with 87s, be prepared for some tough postflop decisions. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Your line isn't that bad, and the possibility of setting your opponent on tilt might "tilt" the correct decisions to the aggressive plays that you used in the hand.

Yours truly,
Decapitated

[michaelp]

How was your session going before this?

[brettbrettr]

Man, I wish I had the balls to post a hand I played like this. I play lots of hands not well. I just try to let everyone think that I'm competent.

FWIW, I only hate the turn bet. I prob do the same thing in the heat of the moment thinking he'll fold, but I regret it.

I'm pretty surprised he checked the river.

I don't love the pre-flop cold call, but I don't think its horrible either. Perhaps a minor -ev play, but this is shaping up to be a biggie and you're in position, so hell, wtf.

The flop raise is goot.

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Flop and turn look pretty standard, and you've already mentioned the river.

Pre-flop, you obviously thought you play better than this table well enough to warrant a CC with plenty still behind you to act. Is this call a run-of-the-mill one for you?

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Raising with mid pair and a runner runner straight draw is standard? Someone explain this to me. You are isolating also by raising here. If you want odds to draw to your straight, you should want more people in the hand. The only way I can see a raise on the flop is if you are HU. Also, betting the turn doesn't make much sense. In my mind, your raise allowed you a free card (even though I don't like it). So take the free card.

[flopmonster]

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Flop and turn look pretty standard, and you've already mentioned the river.

Pre-flop, you obviously thought you play better than this table well enough to warrant a CC with plenty still behind you to act. Is this call a run-of-the-mill one for you?

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This call is hardly run of the mill for me. But there was another loosish guy behind me, no one two aggro, and I figured that the EP poster and the limpers are never folding here. So I figured this hand would usually go 5-6 handed, and so I decided I'd gamble a little.

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Touche.. I hate evry1 hating on a loose preflop call from time to time (and i mean once evry say 500 hands) If you have been playing vs the same players for a while and you think they are observant enough to be watching you, then even though your call may be slightly - EV i think its good to mix it up like this. Also, I think a lot of us have hands that we just plain f#@k up and here this may be the case but at least you had the balls to post it. I have noticed myself getting into the habbit of posting hands that I played well only and thats just not a realistic way of becoming a better poker player.

[Joe Tall]

Come on now, fold preflop!!

[W. Deranged]

1. Pre-flop call is obviously GAMBOOL! But, that doesn't deny the fact that if there was a cold-caller in front of me, if I were on the button, or if there were another limper, or if the two guys behind me were 60/4 types, that this would probably be a +EV call. My call I think was slightly -EV, but I think it is important for people to be on the lookout for positive EV volume situations like this.

2. Flop raise I'm pretty confident is correct and I think that's the best part of the hand. In a pot this big there are many good things that can happen with this hand if I raise.

3. The really interesting question is the turn. I think Private Joker first suggested why I bet the turn, which is because there is tons of value in a turn bet if my opponent has a hand like 99 or KQ. I think the question of how we weigh the value of encouraging a fold sometimes in those situations versus the cost of having to put in 2 BB on what amounts to an 8-out average draw (sometimes we're against a set or something and have dead outs) is a very interesting one that I think no one has sufficiently answered.

So, yes, I like to post hands I probably misplayed, but I think every decision here is close and that's why it's interesting. And I still want a confident answer on the turn thing.