Drills to improve....

[SoBeDude]

He's not referring to a web site, but a "newsgroup".

Newsgroups are the oldest form on communal informaition sharing on the net, dating back over twenty years. The specific group is rec.games.poker, thus RGP. RPG was a typo I believe.

you have to configure a newsreader and may have to contact your ISP for the name of their news server.

Although I used the newsgroups extensively for many many years I don't use them anymore. I'd guess I probably should go to RGP if I'm going to be really serious about my game, but dear lord! I spend enough time every day just on this forum!

Hope this helps!

-Scott

[pudley4]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I'd guess I probably should go to RGP if I'm going to be really serious about my game

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if you're serious about learning all the latest gossip, slander, backstabbing, and "cheating" that goes on, then by all means go right ahead. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

The 2+2 forums are vastly superior to RGP if you are trying to improve your game.

[SoBeDude]

I'm sorry I don't have drills to offer. I DO think that is a fantastic idea though!

Being able to sum up a situation quickly and accurately is very important in poker. you don't have time to pull out a calculator or pen/paper and start figuring out whats up with the hand.

Knowing quick what is the best play and where your opponents stand frees you up to start thinking up a level or two. And this must be the goal of any serious player.

I found one thing that has really helped my game is playing online, low but not tiny limits. I play 2-4 to 5-10 and find the games good.

Over the course of six months, and 15,000 hands, I've seen a real improvement in my game. There is no substitute for experience.

I laughed last night sitting in a live super-squishy 10-20 game. The woman next to me, down a rack, made a comment on how boring the game was. I was thinking to myself who has time to be board at this table!? Watching the players, reading some beautiful tells, putting them on hands, identifying play style of each player, seeing who was trying to be tricky, etc, etc, etc. I was so busy I didn't have time to relax!

(I watched an only-average player get hit with the deck and pull 2 racks off the table in less than 3 hours. And all he did is bet'em when he had'em.)

But what a difference in how *I* act now versus 6 months ago at that table. The difference? Experience in applying what I've been trying to learn from the books. Experience I've gained online.

Just my view,

-Scott

[SoBeDude]

Thanks for the heads-up. I'll pass on the newgroup [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

-Scott

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Piers,
Wouldn't it be faster at the table to have already worked up a table of required odds (rather than outs) for typical situations and memorize that?

I agree that knowing the odds + good reads, and knowing what to do if your reads are correct against player type X is the whole shooting match.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Jimbo,
My day job is software support these days, and I've spent the last 18-20 years of my life earning my living as a mainframe guy.

Here's what I believe about a computer poker player.

Since poker is a game of decisions, an computer a languages all implement decision structures... a program that could kick butt a poker *can* be written given a few things:

1. A person or set of data that can define what the correct move is in all cases. I.e being able to define a correct strategy in detail.

2. A way to input some of the soft data to the computer, such as tells. Though this may be optional, as a computer could definitely remember forever, what an opponent did, and start calculating probabilities the opponent will do X in situation Y, and make the correct decisions based on EV dictated by those probabilities.

Bottom line is this, since every poker player does what he does by making decisions, the whole game is one big decision tree, which computers can do just fine.

It's really just a matter of what inputs to provide, and what to do with them.

You can argue all you want about the "human factors", but as long as you can say, "I decided to bet,fold, call because of reason X..." then the computer can be programmed to do it too.

Sincerely,
AA

[Jimbo]

Hi AA,

1. A person or set of data that can define what the correct move is in all cases. I.e being able to define a correct strategy in detail. Incorrect in a game of incomplete information. Everyone who touts poker bots seem to forget this. Dunno why! [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

2. A way to input some of the soft data to the computer, such as tells. Though this may be optional, as a computer could definitely remember forever, what an opponent did, and start calculating probabilities the opponent will do X in situation Y, and make the correct decisions based on EV dictated by those probabilities. Correct unless the player does not know why himself which is not all that uncommon.

Bottom line is this, since every poker player does what he does by making decisions, the whole game is one big decision tree, which computers can do just fine. Does this mean a computer could tell me why I married my first wife? Or divorced her? Or why ocasionally I will call when I believe I have a losing hand? Or know when I choose to semi-bluff or when I choose not to do this?

It's really just a matter of what inputs to provide, and what to do with them. I agree but don't you need to know what those inputs really mean?

You can argue all you want about the "human factors", but as long as you can say, "I decided to bet,fold, call because of reason X..." then the computer can be programmed to do it too. No need to argue about it at all but what if my response was: I raised preflop because the second hand on my watch was between the 12 and 3? And what if I will not tell you what time it is now? What if I raised because the player was from Bergen? What if I folded because I just spilled hot coffee on myself or I had to go pee? Or if I think 6/7 soooooted is my lucky hand on alternate Tuesdays?

Do you see why a poker bot will not dominate in a game of above average poker players with one or two maniacs thrown in for good measure?

[J.A.Sucker]

Play. Play. Play. This is the best teacher. However, you need to think about what you are doing (usually away from the table) to actually improve. Think about several hands you played during a session and try to go through each step in your head. Also, when not involved in a hand, think about what you'd do at various times assuming you had a certain hand, but one that is marginal. This way, you can think about the pain without experiencing it first-hand. An example would be suppose there's a limper and an MP dude raises. The flop comes down J-5-2. How would you play this if you had KJ in the BB? How about if you somehow cold-called the preflop bet from LP? What if the flop came K hi? These are the situations that separate the winners from the losers in most games. Try to put others on hands, and keep this a dynamic quantity; don't think "he's got AK" just because you heard that it's the most likely raising hand.

Online games play a little differently, but have some intrinsic value in them as well. Play low limit games as a simulator alternative if you want, say a 1/2 game. The games aren't that tough, but people play somewhat OK so you can get hands that play pretty close to normal, whereas with TTHE simulators or play-money games, this may not be the case. However, the only way to truly learn how to play an aggressive 20/40 is to play it, but when you can't do that online may be helpful.

Finally, post hands on this forum. Not just the ones you played well (or think you did) but the ones where you think you played poorly. Also, try to analyze some other hands. Teaching is the best way to really master something, and by posting here, my game has really reached the next level, and I hope that this continues.

These are just my opinions, but I'm Just Another Sucker.

[SoBeDude]

What if I raised because the player was from Bergen? What if I folded because I just spilled hot coffee on myself or I had to go pee? Or if I think 6/7 soooooted is my lucky hand on alternate Tuesdays?

Then I'd say great! Lets you and I play some poker!

-Scott

[SoBeDude]

Finally, post hands on this forum. Not just the ones you played well (or think you did)...

Or perhaps especially the ones you think you played well? You may not have played them as well as you thought...

Just as soon as I think played a few hands well, I'm planning on posting them for others to analyze!

-Scott