An interesting 5-10 nl hand on party...

I play the 5-10nl 1k buy-in game on partypoker everyday. Recentley I had an interesting hand that I was hoping to get some feedback on. I was playing 6 handed and was about 2 k deep and limped in with jack 5 of clubs, the sb made it 40 (who also had 2k), the bb called (1k deep) and i called. (i play very looose in this game bc there r so many players on party that give up their stack with one pair) The flop came down k 10 4 all clubs. The sb bet 70, the bb raises to 200 and i cold called. The sb then reraised alll in for 1800 more and the bb quickly called for its last 800. I rarely am stumped at what to do in this game but I was perplexed here. I thought the sb might have AA with ace of clubs or AK with ace of clubs or maybe even top set. And I thought the bb had the nut or second nut flush to beat me. I thought about it for a while and decided the safe thing to do was fold with only 200 gone from my stack and not risk the 1800 in such a risky situation. (I felt there are much better oppurtunities to get it all-in in the 1k party game.) So the turn was a 6 of hearts and the river paired the king. The bb turned over AA with the ace of clubs and the bb had 89 clubs, so I would ahve won. Nonetheless, I liked my decision and would do it over again. I felt like there was a good chance I was losing on the flop and even if I wasnt i didnt i felt I had to dodge alot of bullets, such as another club or a board pair. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks

You said better than any one of us can put it. You like to play a bit looser in these games and every now and again you get caught in a weird situation because of it. I feel you made the right play. Even though there's a strong possibility your the best on the flop, with 2 people all in, too many things can go wrong with all your money in. If your looking for justification, i'd wait for a safer situation to get all my money in. It's party poker for god sakes, they give you the money, all they ask u to do is wait for it. Good luck

[Zapper]

Let me get this straight...you play jack 5 of clubs, you flop a flush, and then with two people all in you fold?

Stick to aces and kings...

[flawless_victory]

is this a joke or not? just go ahead and tell us plz.

[Big_Jim]

¶

[Lucky]

The wisdom of playing Jc5c for a raise aside, when the flop comes you're in it for stacks. You figure the SB has big pair, hopefully the BB has set or smaller flush and you're ready to rock and roll.

[Big_Jim]

?

[ethan]

First, your equity in the main pot:
If you're against A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A and a higher flush, your equity's obviously 0.
Vs A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A and a lower flush, it's around 75%.
Vs KK and a lower flush, it's around 64%.
Vs A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A and TT, it's about 42%

In the side pot with the SB:
vs A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A your equity's 68%
vs KK your equity's 66%.

So, if you're calling 1800 we're going to presume you're getting 67% of the side pot, or $1370. This means you need $430+ in equity in the $3K main pot, which means winning at least 15% of the time.

If you're against A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A and TT (for 42% equity - basically the worst it gets other than 0%) at least 0.15/0.42 = 36% of the time, that's enough even if you're drawing dead in every other instance. But let's consider what happens the times BB has a lower flush - giving you 70% equity or so. If this happens 20% of the time, then on those times alone you have 0.2 * 0.7 * 3000 = $420 equity in the main pot and it doesn't matter if you're drawing dead the other 80%. More likely though, is that you'll have some equity in the other 80% of hands as well. The real question here is what distribution of {0%, 75%, 64%, 42%} equity you think you have in the main pot, and whether the weighted average of those comes out to over 15%. Barring a pretty strong read on BB, I think this is looking like a call.

[GimmeDaWatch]

Pretty surprised by the post and the 1st response. As the previous equity breakdown post stated, you do realize your fold is correct, and even then only marginally so, ONLY if you're up against the BB nut/2nd flush AND overpair w/club/set, right? Also working in your favor is that BB probably doesnt raise here alot of the time on the flop with the stone nuts. 2nd nut flush also isnt lookin too likely w/Q9 or Q8s (unless he shares your preflop philosophy). That BB only has half of your stack makes this an evem clearer call.

When I first read your post, I thought you made a good laydown to your opponents' range of hands and was happy that you liked the play even though you gave up a big pot. Then, I thought some more about it, and came to a big problem.

What two-card hand do you put BB on that has you beat here? I realize that your hand isn't the nuts, but most people are only playing at the loosest Axs, Kxs, QJs, QTs. Note that he can only have Axs here, and if the raiser has AA, with the A of clubs (not sure how sure you can be of that as I have no read), that's out. Also, in the off chance that you're beat by BB, you've still got a great shot at the side pot. I'm not gonna bother to calculate your EV here in a three-way pot with different-sized stacks, but you have to be +EV here, as BB is forced to make this play with any hand that has AA beat here.