Party/Empire SnGs in later stages...

[Sidekick]

When playing Party/Empire SnGs in the later stages, say blinds of 100/200 and up.

I feel confident this has come up before, but after doing several searches I can really only find mostly indirect references or passing comments regarding this subject. My apologies if I've simply missed a good thread on this topic.

Once the Party/Empire SnGs reach this point, are they mostly crap shoots as far as getting lucky with your hands? I haven't played too many so far, but as rapidly as the blinds come around and as quickly as the blinds escalate, I have been unable to wait (in most of the tourneys I've been in) for any type of good starting hands. What would normally be at best a marginal hand suddenly becomes a must steal attempt on the blinds, etc.

A common situation I've run across so far is that I've doubled up (or even somewhat better, but not in the chip lead) and the table is down to say 4 or 5 players and blinds are at least 100/200. You have to be able to steal the blinds at least a couple of times every few orbits in order to maintain yourself, but if you have doubled your chip stack to about 1600 to 2000 chips then a min raise won't discourage most folks (there are exceptions of course) from calling your min raise.

However, doing a 3x BB raise winds up making you put in about 1/3 or so of your chip stack which most posters I've seen recommend as a push situation or at least a borderline push situation later in SnGs. Assuming you do a 3x BB bet, how do you handle these situations when you get called and the flop completely misses you?

My experience so far (and it is quite limited at Party/Empire) is that I can only afford to get caught 1 time in this situation before I'm then in fold or all-in mode.

Is the Party/Empire structure such that once you get to the 100/200 blind point, that if you don't have at least 3 times your starting stack that you have to push all-in just to steal the blinds and hope that you just get lucky?

Any advice, tips, strategies, insights, etc. would be greatly appreciated. I'm sure there is an obvious answer that I have just missed, but I can't really see it with the blind structure the way it is.

Thank you all that take the time to read through this and further thanks to those that reply! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[AleoMagus]

By level 5 on Party, If I have any less than about 1800, which is most of the time, I am in push/fold mode.

the few exceptions to this are times when I might limp in the SB for an extra 100 if I have a speculative hand like JTs or 33 and virtually everyone else limps in before me.

In this push/fold mode, I am looking to push on the button or in the SB (which is pretty common 4-5 handed). hands that I am looking to push with are:

AK-AT. In the SB, I will often push with as little as A7
KQ-KT.
Pairs
Most suited broadway cards
the occasional suited connector like 9Ts

The thing is, I find at lower stakes SNGs, you have to really be watching your targets closely. Some guys will call a lot if you have been stealing a lot and you will not see me pushing 9Ts or QTs against some guys.

Another factor is how often you are pushing. If I have been stealing a lot, I might fold a lot of hands just because I think I'm going to get a call. On that same token, if I have been folding everything for a while and I find K7 in the SB, I might try a steal.

One other extramely important factor is stack sizes. If one stack is very small, you can actually steal quite a bit because players will want to see you bust the small stack and will not want to be eliminated before the money. Additionally, being caught on a steal with a hand like J9s is not too bad if your opponent can only take 30% of your stack anyways.

For example, If I have 1800 in level 5 and it is folded to me on the button holding J9s. The SB and BB have about 600 each. I will push this. It is a steal and I do not want a call. the two small stacks will be trying to outlast each other so I do not expect a call, but even if they find a hand like AK, I am not horribly behind. If one calls and wins, there is still a much shorter stack at the table.

When discussing this once before, trying to define steal-type hands, another poster on here made what I considered a very important comment.

'It all depends on how likely I am to be called'

This is very true and your estimate of this should play a huge part in these decisions.

Regards
Brad S

[Sidekick]

If I understand what you are saying, when you are at less than about 1800 you are pushing when attempting to steal the blinds?

I look for the type of situations that you describe for trying to steal the blinds, but at least half the time it is either the big stack(s) to my left that I need to steal from, or I can't get a hand that is nearly as good as what you (and I look for myself) look to steal with.

There are plenty of times that I go 4+ orbits when less than 5 players are left and the best hand I might see is say J9 offsuit. I know this is a crappy hand, but at the same time I can't keep waiting for a hand that qualifies as a good steal hand or my stack will become so small that no one will respect the steal attempt or will simply call the all-in with any two cards because it is such a small percentage of their stack.

I know I can't be the only person that frequently sees stretches of 20+ cards (4 orbits with 5 players left) where the highest card I will see during that stretch is a 9 or 10 with no connectors or even suited one gap hands.

It looks to me from what I've seen and what you are saying that I just have to push with a crummy hand and hope they fold or I get lucky on the board. If I have misunderstood anything please let me know.

I really appreciate the response.

[Klak]

thats right. push with some junk and pray for a fold. id say position is much more important than what cards you hold. button and SB are the best positions to steal from(when everyone has folded) so you can play worse hands on steals from those positions.