The blue moon must be here, I fold TPTK to one bet on the flop...

sethypooh21 · #1 06-02-2005, 08:53 PM

I feel like I failed the SAT and am showing up for the first day of remedial english for even posting this one but here goes...

SB is often caught over-aggressively semi-bluffing crap draws. MP is LAG/borderline maniac who doesn't really need a reason to fire away. No real reads on other limpers (other then they limped, which was not atypical). This is a super easy fold right?

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $2.
UTG (poster) checks, MP calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero folds...

Zapper · #2 06-02-2005, 09:01 PM

the more i look at this hand the more i like the fold

JrJordan · #3 06-02-2005, 09:09 PM

If by real easy fold you mean I hate money, then yeah its a good fold.

You said yourself that SB could be betting a crap draw. He's giving you the opportunity to charge 2SB to the field when you have a vulnerable hand. Your other option is to smooth call this flop, see what the rest of the field does and raise a rag turn. The problem with this line though is you have so many cards that you can't raise on the turn. Jam this flop and go from there.

Zapper · #4 06-02-2005, 09:40 PM

What turn cards do we like?? Ah? Even with tptk I don't think his pot equity is this big with four opponents. Obviously SB is not bluffing, he's betting into four people on a very draw-filled board. Even if he has a 7 of spades that's enough to be ahead of the Hero..

JrJordan · #5 06-02-2005, 09:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What turn cards do we like?? Ah? Even with tptk I don't think his pot equity is this big with four opponents. Obviously SB is not bluffing, he's betting into four people on a very draw-filled board. Even if he has a 7 of spades that's enough to be ahead of the Hero..

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I agree this is a vulnerable hand, that's why we need to raise. Anyone calling with just overs doesn't have odds to do so now. Likewise, if there are several people that call with a single spade, all but the biggest one are drawing dead. Even if SB has 7s and is a slight favorite, there's still 5SB already in the pot. If a spade falls, it's pretty easy to get away from, vs. when they miss you can charge them another BB on the turn when your equity is even better. I still think a raise is +EV here.

Alobar · #6 06-02-2005, 11:44 PM

I dont think the fold is bad, youve got 4 other people in the hand (3 of which are yet to act), one of which is a maniac, youve got an extremely vunerable hand and the pot is small.

Wynton · #7 06-03-2005, 10:41 AM

I vote in favor of raising the flop and seeing what develops. SB could be betting with a weaker hand, or nut flush draw. And a raise might knock the others out. I think the chance of getting this headsup, even if small, justifies a flop raise.

steelcmg · #8 06-03-2005, 10:51 AM

I was in the same situation the otherday with A9 SB raised the flop and then i reraised just to be reraised right after and 1 person cold called and SB called. I thought a min and decided something just didnt seem right so i wanted out of this pot. I ended up saving alot of money since another 9 hit on the turn and i would have lost to the flush.

ISF · #9 06-03-2005, 11:02 AM

I actually think a case can be made for calling and waiting for the turn here. No one is folding overs with a big [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] to a raise, but most will fold overs to the one bet if they dont have a spade so I dont think the flop bet does much to increase your equity. Your equity is likly to change dramatically on the turn, and you can decide then if a raise or fold is best.

Jdanz · #10 06-03-2005, 02:25 PM

lots of people are probably drawing very live however as they likely don't have a made hand yet and you can face them with improper odds (and you very likely have the best hand) you should do so.

this really isn't that scary a board, face the field with 2 and bet any turn card. if it's a scary one and people are still with you you're done if it isn't scary your probably leading with one card left in a big pot.