Preflop Plays & Creativity

[TienXia]

I know the stakes i play are too low to be posting in this forum but im wondering if these plays are ones that players make in bigger cash games and whether i should be adding them to my repertoire if i plan on moving up in stakes. Thanks for indulging a lowly 50NL player =).

Lately ive been reading Phil Gordon’s Little Green Book. The content has me trying to be a little bit more creative with my game. However, im not sure if Im applying the strategies/tactics to the correct situations. First, im not sure if the tactics such as raising limpers and the “chip sandwich” play are tournament specific or whether they are supposed to be applied to cash games. I’ve been playing $50NL lately and raising limpers doesn’t seem optimal unless I have a strong hand. If im on a steal, winning a couple of 50 cent blinds is that great as my TAG image quickly becomes tarnished if I try to use this play very often. Also, the chip sandwich play seems like it wouldn’t be nearly as effective in cash games where players are able to simply reload. Do you guys make these plays and have they been effective?

I also like to mix my PF play up a little bit by raising in early with SC’s or suited gapers on occasion. While I think this play is fine, I will also sometimes make a 4xBB raise after some limpers have entered the pot and when im in position with these same types of hands. I’ve been wondering whether this play is worth it. While it adds some deception, I’m expecting to have callers and I don’t think I can bluff my way to a win all the time. Is limping preferable here? Are these strategies somewhat dependent on the stakes being played?

Nate

[tewall]

I haven't read Phil's book, but Harrington talks about the same play. In his book he suggests making the play very occasionally, like once in several hours, when the conditions are just right, the conditions involving who is limping, what their perception of you is, and how large their stacks are. If their stacks are too large or too small, it will be too easy for them to call for the play to work.

It's easy to overdo plays like this, so having the discipline to only pull the trigger when the situation is just right is the key factor.

[fuego527]

I do not mean this in a condescending manner, but I suggest that one should play ABC TAG probably up to the 100s as to become very comfortable with it. As with everything in life, you need to have a very solid grasp of the fundamentals before you start "mixing it up". Plays like these add more value against thinking players, I would just go ahead and limp those SCs behind a couple limpers and practise your postflop play. Your opponents aren't paying attention very well and the mistakes you should be exploiting are their sizable postflop errors.

[TienXia]

Thanks guys,, i think thats how ive been leaning as of late. Being pretty conservative against these guys seems to be most profitable as they dont pay a lot of attention to these types of plays. Ill keep them in mind for when i move up though.

[creedofhubris]

The players to put moves on are the ones who are putting moves on you.

The majority of low-limit players are not worth bluffing preflop, because they are loose and won't fold. The only ones you can get creative with are the thinking LAGs and TAGs who raise preflop with crappy hands themselves.

[ginko]

Heres what I see raising in late with SC's can accomplish:

A lot of the time some or all of the limpers will fold.

Your raise can buy you a free card if you flop a draw.

If you get only 1 caller you can make a continuation bet and take the pot down often.

If your hand goes to showdown people will think your a maniac.

When you raise with SC's your folding out bigger suited cards(like k7s or j2s) that could potentially give you big reverse implied odds.

at this point at $50 NL, you need to be sure your game is solid. i would recommend some software to make sure you're not doing some small things wrong.

solid play, mixing up your game well.. and then adding more tricks is good. but it is also much better as you move up in the levels because your opponents are more thought oriented. dont pick just one person or someone to follow a style. the more tools you have to use are good, as long as you have a solid game and decision making to back them up.

People on the internet at $50 no limit games usually aren't that observant.

If you want to "mix it up"... do what Caro and Sklansky say.

Play your tuesday hands.

Sklansky describes that on any given day he mixes up his game by playing ONE specific hand like its the nuts. He plays ABC tight aggressive play everyday all day. However, every day he has a different hand to throw people off. On Tuesdays that hand happens to be 9-10 suited.

So on tuesdays he will check raise, raise, re-raise semi-bluff with 9-10 suited, it's a cool idea and when he does hit a flop hard (two pair or straight/flush) he gets paid of big.

I incorporated this into my game about 1 year ago... and it works like a charm. For the rest of the session players aren't only scarred you have strong hand when you play... they always think that your bluffing with that 1 in 20 times you play a hand like 9-10 suited.