An AKo disagreement - Page 2

ChipLeader · #11 08-10-2005, 02:49 AM

Isnt Hero risking it by pushing?

Edit: We never said the blinds were going up anytime soon, youre playing the current hand. In a couple rounds we'll have less than 5x the BB! That shouldnt influence your decision unless that level is closing in, and that wasnt part of the situation.

Exitonly · #12 08-10-2005, 03:46 AM

Depends what you think is a risk... I doubt CO was limping with AA/KK.. so you're risking your chips at worst a 55/45... and probably 90% of the tmie you're taking it uncontested.. That doesn't sound like much of a risk to me. And a good % of the time you are called, it's going to be by hands like AQ or AJ taht put you on a steal with a mid-pair. I think the push here is a good move.

I think you'd be risking more by just raising and letting him see a flop.

ChipLeader · #13 08-10-2005, 05:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Depends what you think is a risk... I doubt CO was limping with AA/KK.. so you're risking your chips at worst a 55/45... and probably 90% of the tmie you're taking it uncontested.. That doesn't sound like much of a risk to me. And a good % of the time you are called, it's going to be by hands like AQ or AJ taht put you on a steal with a mid-pair. I think the push here is a good move.

I think you'd be risking more by just raising and letting him see a flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw it that way as well, my friend said raising would have been better. I figured though, im a coinflip at worst and if it looks like a steal i could get calls from AQ or maybe AJs or KQs. Im also getting low PPs to fold most the time, which is good considering theyre ahead AND i miss the flop most the time.

The other player later went on to say it depends on your strategy. If youre content with the stack you have the push is fine, as 1G isnt bad but will still leave you in need of a double. He prefers to be aggressive with it and try to win a bigger pot. Theres some merit to the raise i think, but i still prefer the push here any day of the week.

ChipLeader · #14 08-10-2005, 05:44 AM

I pushed, Co-1 called with KK- i did NOT see that one comin. Luckily that 30% came through for me when i spiked the A on the flop. This lead me to believe that if id played it any differently i either would have lost my action or been pushed all in anyway, so i was much happier to be the pusher. Why CO-1 isnt opening the hand i have no idea, but luckily and unluckily for him i had a hand i was willing tro push.

Benholio · #15 08-10-2005, 05:56 AM

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Why CO-1 isnt opening the hand i have no idea, but luckily and unluckily for him i had a hand i was willing tro push.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe he was reading one or more of the remaining 4 players as likely to try to steal an unraised pot. Worst case scenario he gives a cheap/free flop to the blinds, but he can still play a non-ace flop very profitably in this case.

Sure, I'd be raising here, but limping is defensible.

ChipLeader · #16 08-10-2005, 06:37 AM

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Sure, I'd be raising here, but limping is defensible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Theres always a defense for a play. For example, i could check the AK and play it soft unless i hit. Every play has some advantage you could mention but i think anyone would agree limping KK from here is a bad idea.

The player had no reason to suspect a play at him, hes just a fish playing AA or KK the only way they know how: pushing or trapping- and we all know how fish with traps tend to end up.

nopepper · #17 08-10-2005, 08:06 AM

I have a quick question, how would your play differ with AQs?

ChipLeader · #18 08-10-2005, 08:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I have a quick question, how would your play differ with AQs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Id be more willing to check and play the flop. One of the hands im hopin to get called by is AQ, and here id have to worry about being dominated- which was one of the main reasons i was pushing AK, knowing i was 50/50 at WORST 95% of the time.

Then again, im not a big fan of AQs so i might be playing it softer than most. I figure the limp to be somethin like a low PP and dont mind not getting involved if i miss, or maybe its a Ax suited and ill get more by hitting the A and not pushing my customer out preflop. I know many players would probably raise the AQs here as well but im much better at 5 card poker than 2 card HE.

SoBeDude · #19 08-10-2005, 08:49 AM

I don't get it.

I've read the whole thread and don't see why you wouldn't make a standard raise here.

I'm raising 1200-1500 here essentially 100% of the time. the only time I might play it differently if the villian is known to be aggressive in LP, so his limp is highly suspicious.

And basically any pair is calling your push here, as it smells like a steal. And you're not so desperate than you need a coinflip yet.

Also remember that many small pairs will fold on the flop after you make a standard raise and a continuation bet, because most of the times the board is scary for small pairs.

-Scott

ChipLeader · #20 08-10-2005, 09:01 AM

You think a player who is unwilling to bet a PP is willign to risk his stack calling it? And you think hes MORE likely to call the push?

You also think a small PP will call the raise but fold to a low flop (whether or not he has a midpair, overpair, etc)?

Since we miss the flop most the time, i dont rely on him folding to our continuation bet when hes already invested so much, and the times we hit we're letting him out cheap. I feel a raise reeks of a high A and we're losing our action on the good flops and dropping half our stacks on continuation bets the other half.

Also, if the raise is for elimination purposes, i dont think theres ANY hand hes folding to a raise but not a push, but i think theres MANY hands he folding to a push but not a raise.
The more I analyze it the more i like the push. You have more FE which is what we need against PPs, since theyre ahead and we dont want to lose action on good flops and give action on bad ones.