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  #1  
Old 12-25-2005, 03:26 PM
Wideout88 Wideout88 is offline
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Default Huh? Limp Reraise, from the third limper

Villain's numbers are 12/4 PAF 8.00 and WTSD 5% over 112 hands

This is my first hand at the table, I have $100 he has me covered.

Party Poker (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG Calls $1, UTG+1 Calls $1, MP1 Calls $1, 3 Folds, Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, MP1 reraises to $20, Hero...

Ok what does that mean? He limped third, what kind of range should I put him on? Is he getting real tricky with AA, KK, or is this some weird resteal with position and 33-99 or Axs. So anyway he confused me, so I let my time bar run and called him, which I think is a big mistake considering im out of position. Do you fold here, or reraise him back?

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero ...

Lead this flop? I think I messed this one up
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  #2  
Old 12-25-2005, 03:33 PM
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Default Re: Huh? Limp Reraise, from the third limper

After so many limpers, reraise to a higher amount (like 10 or 12 maybe) or a better situation, after three limpers, is to play the jacks for set value, rather than for the overpair, especiallly in the SB since you'll be OOP for the rest of the hand. I might check fold the flop, or check call a small bet and see what develops on the turn.
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  #3  
Old 12-25-2005, 03:52 PM
Godfather80 Godfather80 is offline
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Default Re: Huh? Limp Reraise, from the third limper

[ QUOTE ]
Villain's numbers are 12/4 PAF 8.00 and WTSD 5% over 112 hands

This is my first hand at the table, I have $100 he has me covered.

Party Poker (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG Calls $1, UTG+1 Calls $1, MP1 Calls $1, 3 Folds, Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, MP1 reraises to $20, Hero...

Ok what does that mean? He limped third, what kind of range should I put him on? Is he getting real tricky with AA, KK, or is this some weird resteal with position and 33-99 or Axs. So anyway he confused me, so I let my time bar run and called him, which I think is a big mistake considering im out of position. Do you fold here, or reraise him back?

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero ...

Lead this flop? I think I messed this one up

[/ QUOTE ]


I think this is interesting. Personally, I would not be raising with JJ out of the SB with 3 limpers to me because I hate playing big pots OOP with moderately strong hands. If I chose to raise in that spot, I'd definitely be making it $10+ because I don't want any callers.

As played, I am spooked by his reraise because it forces me to play a big pot with my JJ OOP.

Why would villain pull this overlimp-reraise play on us? He obviously does not put us on AA or KK, which are 2 of the hands that would raise out of the SB after several limpers. To me, this means that he must put us on a hand like AK or QQ. UNLESS: hero has been aggressive preflop and has shown down some weaker holdings in some other games with villain.

If he believes that we have AK or QQ and reraises us, what does he have to hold? 88-AA. Considering that there are 3 of these hands that beat us and 3 of these hands that we beat, villain has gotten aggressive, and we are OOP for the hand, I'm folding to his reraise preflop.

Tough spot.
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  #4  
Old 12-26-2005, 01:21 AM
trumpman84 trumpman84 is offline
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Default Re: Huh? Limp Reraise, from the third limper

It's a weird play, yes, but in my experience, it's almost always AA/KK unless the villain is a LAG. Some fish feel the need to slowplay aces so much that they don't want to 'scare anyone away' by raising preflop and will limp right behind.
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  #5  
Old 12-26-2005, 01:24 AM
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Default Re: Huh? Limp Reraise, from the third limper

I agree with a strong re-raise after the limpers, but to just call for set value?
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  #6  
Old 12-26-2005, 01:26 AM
ajmargarine ajmargarine is offline
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Default Re: Huh? Limp Reraise, from the third limper

I would like to know what happened in this hand. Cuz I know what I would probably do at the table, push preflop. Villians hand to me is 99/TT.
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  #7  
Old 12-26-2005, 01:30 AM
Fallen Hero Fallen Hero is offline
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Default Re: Huh? Limp Reraise, from the third limper

[ QUOTE ]
I would like to know what happened in this hand. Cuz I know what I would probably do at the table, push preflop. Villians hand to me is 99/TT.

[/ QUOTE ]

my thoughts exactly
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  #8  
Old 12-26-2005, 02:52 AM
Wideout88 Wideout88 is offline
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Default Re: Huh? Limp Reraise, from the third limper

My first instinct was that he must have a midrange pair and I need to push, but I checked his numbers and noticed he was 12/5 and I started second guessing myself. If he was seeing so few flops, granted it was over a small sample size, but I didnt see a need to push in my entire stack on my second hand there, with JJ. It made me lean much more to AKs, there were two limpers in front he figured its a decent hand to play multiway, lets see a cheap flop and go from there, then it folds to me and I raise out of position back to him, hes got AK, so he probably figures I dont have AA or KK, he figures let me take control since he has position so he raises me back, expecting me to freeze. With no timebank I start thinking, and since I just started my session, I was not 100% focused and my time bank almost ran out so I called behind, which was a mistake since I wasn't getting odds to draw to a set, and once I call behind that is essentially what I am doing. The flop came K high and I insta-checked to him, he potted it after a slight delay, and I annoyingly mucked, knowing I just flushed away 20 bucks by not thinking through the hand enough. I asked him what he had, got no response so I went on my way.

I believe the proper way to play this hand, as I've been thinking about it all day is to push preflop. It just does not make sense for him to have AA or KK, so really I think his range is 66-QQ, or AKs, AQs, or him being an idiot.
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  #9  
Old 12-26-2005, 03:11 AM
willmay3 willmay3 is offline
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Default Second Hand Low?

A couple of general thoughts:

1. I'm not crazy about raising with the Jacks out of position for all the reasons mentioned. I know the hazards of this as I routinely make this mistake.

2. With no immediate read on the table I am instantly alert when there are limpers from EP and MP, making your raise out of the SB that much more egregious.

3. Maybe I'm over thinking this, but could this be an example of what Cloutier calls playing second hand low? Meaning limping after limpers in hopes that someon in back will raise the pot driving the limpers back into you and you being able to put in a pretty big raise at that time?

I dunno. I think you played it exactly as I would have, which means you played it horribly [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Better luck next time.
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  #10  
Old 12-26-2005, 03:52 AM
wdeadwyler wdeadwyler is offline
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Default Re: Huh? Limp Reraise, from the third limper

Raising Jacks is standard with any amount of limpers from ANY position 6 handed. If you arent raising jacks 100% of the time you are leaving money on the table
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