Let's Discuss the CR Bluff!

AL5AcE · #1 12-02-2005, 02:42 PM

The CR Bluff is one of the sexiest plays ever but also one of the hardest to execute. A couple of things I've found while attempting it:

- Unless you induce a bluff from the villan, villan will usually have to be able to fold a mediocre hand (mid or bottom pair) in a fairly large pot, perhaps getting proper odds to call. (Don't attempt it until you've seen him do something like that in a previous hand.)
- Everything must be perfect: your image, the board, your read on opponent, and the type of opponent.
- Never try a CR bluff when the pot is going to be giving opponent good odds to look you up.
- Even though you know he has a mediocre hand at best and you can successfully represent a better hand, you still shouldn't try it in a big pot because more often than not you'll just get a crying call.

Let's add some more opinions! Would anyone like to post examples of successful and non successful CR bluffs? Can you explain your reasoning/reads/thoughts behind the hand?

Rootabager · #2 12-02-2005, 04:12 PM

I think it's so rare that one will work playing low limit party games that I never go for it. People just say F it and call anyway.

#3 12-02-2005, 04:39 PM

Agreed.

You need some good reconnaissance on the player to even consider it, and even then it can only work as a bluff ~once per session (unless you are setting up future value raises). My winning sessions at 2/4 lack the CR bluff.

#4 12-02-2005, 05:55 PM

Little background too. This was one of the few instances where I actualyl chatted at a table. After a TAG 3 bet me PF with AQo and we chopped the pot (I had AQo also) Villian in this hand was listening and giving some thoughts too, he obviously had some clue about how to play (except he folds AJo UTG and I told him thats a leak)

My table image is tight, and aggressive.

I felt sexy after this.

Reads :
CO is a donk 35 / 4.6 / 0.83
Button (villian) is tight, thinking, but I think also kinda passive 15 / 4.6 / 1.1

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: (5.33 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Button calls, Hero calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds.

Turn: (4.16 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, Hero raises, CO folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: 7.16 BB

Sexy?

#5 12-02-2005, 06:17 PM

I'm not a fan of either the turn or the flop. You are risking 2 bets to win five when most of the time you are behind. This is a routine fold for me on the flop.

MagicRat · #6 12-02-2005, 06:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
..., he obviously had some clue about how to play (except he folds AJo UTG and I told him thats a leak).

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you really blanket-describe folding AJo UTG as a leak?? I usually do play it myself but there are times I pass it by...

#7 12-02-2005, 06:22 PM

One important thing to consider is the ammount of investment it takes to set up the bluff checkraise on the turn. You have to call several bets on previous streets, then execute it and hope it works. Plus you have to have a hell of a read to make sure it will work.

Basically, it should pretty much never be the goal of a line you are setting up. If the situation happens to present itself against an opponent (preferably one) that you think it will work against (i.e. the stars are in allignment) then it might be worth it.

I think if you never bluff CR'd at lower limits it would not be much of an error at all.

Shillx · #8 12-02-2005, 06:26 PM

The check/raise bluff is a terrible play in isolation, but is a very tough play when you understand the theory behind it. Here is a hand that I played a while ago in a 10 man game...

It was folded to a very good player who raised in LMP. I 3-bet from the BB with KQ [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and we took a flop HU.

Flop (Pot = 6 SB): A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] - I bet and he called
Turn (Pot = 4 BB): 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] - I bet and he called
River (Pot = 6 BB): 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] - I checked, he bet and I raised

If I were to post this hand on the forum, I would probably get called an idiot. This play looks really stupid in isolation, but what if my hand range is AK/AQ and KQ/KJ/KT [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] when I check/raise the river? My opponent is getting 9:1 to call the check/raise, but I'm 8:1 to have a big ace in this spot (that I'm guessing will win if called). So now this play is a valid one (and a very good one at that). I will almost surely benefit from making this check/raise bluff because I'm playing very close to what game theory would suggest. Either he has to fold to my bluff or payoff my AK/AQ and that makes me $$$ long term.

Brad

ChuckyB · #9 12-02-2005, 08:28 PM

I've used the c/r bluff most effectively on the flop and firing at the turn. (1/2 6-max, 2/4 FR)

I'll pick some guy who I perceive to be weak (not even necessarily tight) when it's heads up. I judge his reaction to my raise. If he takes some time and then calls, I've probably got him. I'll immediately fire at the turn and usually take it down.

If he calls quickly I'll fire at the turn and check-down the river. I don't mind my bluff attempt showing up in the HH.

I've found the turn c/r, river bet less effective just because of the pot odds.

El Tigre · #10 12-02-2005, 08:36 PM

I find the check-raise bluff to be EXTREMElY profitable, in a not so uncommon situation. Say you are in the small blind and it folds around to you. I smooth call most of the time and check the flop. I'd say 80% of the time the BB bets it, I raise it almost everytime and it works with great success. The easy thing about this play is that if you get 3-bet it is an easy fold. The times it works more than makes up the losses when he flops a hand.