The inflection point on rakeback with Stars and Party

[ClaytonN]

In a post in the internet forum (Dear Lee Jones), we get the following:

[ QUOTE ]
For example, our (PS) rake is lower by:

39% for $.50/$1
20% for $1/$2
16% for $2/$4
14% for $3/$6
10% for $5$10

[/ QUOTE ]

This, however, does not substitute rakeback.

Given varying rakeback percentages, at what point is it best for a player to move from stars to party? I've discussed this with some friends and the general consensus is when you make the leap from 3/6 to 5/10, but I was hoping if somebody could crunch some numbers and get a better idea.

This obviously depends on the rakeback percentage quote you get but generally I'm hearing numbers around 25% for Party.

[beanie]

Poker Stars is saying to everyone, we have good games and we advertise for fish. If that is enough, you should play there. If not, there are other options and if they didn't react to the Party changes I highly doubt they will.

[Piers]

You could factor in Poker Stars FPP and Party PPs. Which would favor Poker Stars particularly around the 2/4 level.

[chunk]

[ QUOTE ]
In a post in the internet forum (Dear Lee Jones), we get the following:

[ QUOTE ]
For example, our (PS) rake is lower by:

39% for $.50/$1
20% for $1/$2
16% for $2/$4
14% for $3/$6
10% for $5$10

[/ QUOTE ]

This, however, does not substitute rakeback.

Given varying rakeback percentages, at what point is it best for a player to move from stars to party? I've discussed this with some friends and the general consensus is when you make the leap from 3/6 to 5/10, but I was hoping if somebody could crunch some numbers and get a better idea.

This obviously depends on the rakeback percentage quote you get but generally I'm hearing numbers around 25% for Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I crunched some numbers. My sample size is small though, so someone with a larger sample should have a better idea. The basic idea, though is that for a tight player rakeback >> "reduced rake".

Here's a look at 1/2. Using PT stats over 11,655 hands played and 14,736 observed, and assuming a %20 discount at Stars.

rake paid per hand at PP $0.040
rake attributed at PP $0.055
assumed rake paid at PS $0.032
rakeback required to compensate, 14.63%

and for 2/4. 10619 played and 28080 observed. 16% discount

rake paid per hand at PP $0.065
rake attributed at PP $0.102
assumed rake paid at PS $0.054
rakeback required to compensate, 10.18%

BTW my vpip is 16%, and this number should significantly effect the results for anyone who is much different that that.

I had figured this out a while back using my PT stats. For me, the reduced rake at PS constituted about 9% rakeback in comparison to playing party. If you factor in the value of the FPPs, should be a little higher.

Not a bad start, but not quite what you can get at rakeback.

[ClaytonN]

Thanks chunk. Well done.

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]

Given varying rakeback percentages, at what point is it best for a player to move from stars to party? I've discussed this with some friends and the general consensus is when you make the leap from 3/6 to 5/10, but I was hoping if somebody could crunch some numbers and get a better idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're not accounting for game quality in your model, you might as well not make a model.

scrub

[schwza]

also this does not help sng players at stars at all. the have the same rake as party.

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]
also this does not help sng players at stars at all. the have the same rake as party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. Stars has lower rakes. The turbo SNG's on Stars play similar to the normal SNG's on party, and the vigourish is lower per buyin (15+1 on PS compared to 10+1 on PP), etc.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
also this does not help sng players at stars at all. the have the same rake as party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. Stars has lower rakes. The turbo SNG's on Stars play similar to the normal SNG's on party, and the vigourish is lower per buyin (15+1 on PS compared to 10+1 on PP), etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's a fair point. on the flip side, 6-max and HU tourneys always have less rake than full table, so since stars is 9 vs 10, they should have less rake.