#1
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Do you make this call?
No read on BB except he had only been seated for 5 hands and had already played one hand poorly (check/called to the river with middle pair).
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em (10 handed) BB .25 converter MP3 ($10.45) Hero ($82.55) Button ($35.1) SB ($20.35) BB ($18.15) UTG ($24.5) UTG+1 ($25) UTG+2 ($56.8) MP1 ($45.21) MP2 ($18.85) Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.1. <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls $1.75, MP1 calls $1.75, MP2 calls $1.75. Flop: ($8.10) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, BB calls $6, MP1 folds, MP2 folds. Turn: ($22.10) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> BB goes all-in $10.15 |
#2
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Re: Do you make this call?
Hmm. Tough one. Your only read indicates passivity, and this is a classic, fishy passive-aggressive play with any ten. On the other hand, this could easily be a desperation bid by a short stack, and your hand is at least slightly hidden. A smaller pocket pair is statistically more likely, and with the pot laying 3:1, I think this has to be a call. I think your hand is good often enough here for a call to be fairly profitable.
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#3
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Re: Do you make this call?
Yeah, I think you probably have to call this. Keep in mind that 3 other people saw the flop with you which increases the likelihood that someone did have a ten. You were still a favorite preflop, though, of course.
This is more like 50/50. I think the fact that he did play a hand poorly earlier actually increases the likelihood that he has the ten because poor players call raises with all kinds of junk. |
#4
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Re: Do you make this call?
2:1 odds, i'm sure you're winning at least 1/3 of the time, easy call
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#5
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Re: Do you make this call?
[ QUOTE ]
2:1 odds, i'm sure you're winning at least 1/3 of the time, easy call [/ QUOTE ] 3:1. There was $22 in the pot before Villain went all-in for $10 more. Makes this even easier. |
#6
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What\'s the flop raise for?
[ QUOTE ]
Flop: ($8.10) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, BB calls $6, MP1 folds, MP2 folds. [/ QUOTE ] What are you trying to accomplish with the flop raise here? 1-fold out better hands? 2-charge draws? 3-find out where you are at in terms of your hand's strength? 4-other reasons (hopefully people can add those that i've forgotten) IMO your flop raise didn't accomplish any of those objectives - it was too weak. if you are going to raise here it needs to be more. I'm not sure what the best line here would be. I hope others can chime in. The line that I would think to use in this instance might be to simply call MP2's initial bet- and i think this is based on the fact that he is short-stacked. if i raise him a decent amount, then he is folding out hands that i beat (i.e. 99, 77, 66, etc.) and pushing with the hands that i lose to (any T, plus the boat) ... should he push after i raise it will be such a small amt back to me that i will undoubtedly call. the bad thing about just calling his bet is that it is giving him and other people in the hand good odds to draw to a flush/str8. however, should a scare card hit and someone comes alive i can easily get away from the hand, not being extremely committed. i think the thing that is making it tricky for me to think about this hand is the fact that MP2 is short-stacked and if i raise he only plays when he has me beat ... but when i dont raise he will put in more $$$ both when he has me beat AND when he is beat (i.e. 88,99,draw that doesnt get there) i realize the line i suggested seems really weak- i'm having a tuff time making heads or tails of this situation. i hope others can comment on this |
#7
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Re: What\'s the flop raise for?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Flop: ($8.10) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, BB calls $6, MP1 folds, MP2 folds. [/ QUOTE ] What are you trying to accomplish with the flop raise here? 1-fold out better hands? 2-charge draws? 3-find out where you are at in terms of your hand's strength? 4-other reasons (hopefully people can add those that i've forgotten) IMO your flop raise didn't accomplish any of those objectives - it was too weak. if you are going to raise here it needs to be more. I'm not sure what the best line here would be. I hope others can chime in. The line that I would think to use in this instance might be to simply call MP2's initial bet- and i think this is based on the fact that he is short-stacked. if i raise him a decent amount, then he is folding out hands that i beat (i.e. 99, 77, 66, etc.) and pushing with the hands that i lose to (any T, plus the boat) ... should he push after i raise it will be such a small amt back to me that i will undoubtedly call. the bad thing about just calling his bet is that it is giving him and other people in the hand good odds to draw to a flush/str8. however, should a scare card hit and someone comes alive i can easily get away from the hand, not being extremely committed. i think the thing that is making it tricky for me to think about this hand is the fact that MP2 is short-stacked and if i raise he only plays when he has me beat ... but when i dont raise he will put in more $$$ both when he has me beat AND when he is beat (i.e. 88,99,draw that doesnt get there) i realize the line i suggested seems really weak- i'm having a tuff time making heads or tails of this situation. i hope others can comment on this [/ QUOTE ] To be fair, he knocked out the initial bettor & one other. 3x raise doesn't seem TOO weak here, though on a scary board you might need to bump it to $8 or $10. The real problem as I see it is the size of villain's stack. The flat call / open-push is awfully fishy, but he's going to make it with any hand he wants to play, whether ahead of you or behind. If Hero makes it $10 and Villain comes over the top for the rest of his stack, Hero still can't really get away. What can you do? Fold? I sure don't like that option. Flat call? Even worse. I can't see this hand playing out any other way, if Villain's game. Also, I think DoubleDown may be confusing MP2 and BB. MP2 was the initial bettor - BB flat called the raise. |
#8
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Re: What\'s the flop raise for?
hopefully bump-worthy
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#9
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Re: What\'s the flop raise for?
[ QUOTE ]
hopefully bump-worthy [/ QUOTE ] I'll reply to what you wrote in a bit, don't have the time right now. Thanks for the input! |
#10
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Re: What\'s the flop raise for?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Flop: ($8.10) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, BB calls $6, MP1 folds, MP2 folds. [/ QUOTE ] What are you trying to accomplish with the flop raise here? 1-fold out better hands? 2-charge draws? 3-find out where you are at in terms of your hand's strength? 4-other reasons (hopefully people can add those that i've forgotten) IMO your flop raise didn't accomplish any of those objectives - it was too weak. if you are going to raise here it needs to be more. I'm not sure what the best line here would be. I hope others can chime in. The line that I would think to use in this instance might be to simply call MP2's initial bet- and i think this is based on the fact that he is short-stacked. if i raise him a decent amount, then he is folding out hands that i beat (i.e. 99, 77, 66, etc.) and pushing with the hands that i lose to (any T, plus the boat) ... should he push after i raise it will be such a small amt back to me that i will undoubtedly call. the bad thing about just calling his bet is that it is giving him and other people in the hand good odds to draw to a flush/str8. however, should a scare card hit and someone comes alive i can easily get away from the hand, not being extremely committed. i think the thing that is making it tricky for me to think about this hand is the fact that MP2 is short-stacked and if i raise he only plays when he has me beat ... but when i dont raise he will put in more $$$ both when he has me beat AND when he is beat (i.e. 88,99,draw that doesnt get there) i realize the line i suggested seems really weak- i'm having a tuff time making heads or tails of this situation. i hope others can comment on this [/ QUOTE ] With the flop raise I wanted to get heads up with the bettor and knock out anybody with a flush draw or overcards. The bettor (MP2) actually folded but BB called after checking. I really feel like I played the hand okay on the flop. I felt like if I raised any bigger and was re-raised I would have a tougher decision to make. With the bet I made, I could get away from the hand if he re-raised me or if he fired hard at the turn (which he did). So this is what brought me to my predicament of calling or folding on the turn. |
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