Pushing three times in one orbit.

[pokerlaw]

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Does anyone here consider how many times in one orbit you're pushing and stealing, or is it correct to just do it whenever all other conditions are right?


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of course. If i had just pushed a few hands in an orbit, my range in what I push after that tightens in most situations. The main reason for this is that failing to do so ignores the fact that people start thinking you are becoming a maniac and adjust their calling ranges accordingly.

[Burno]

I think it's even more than just them adjusting their calling ranges, though that obviously occurs. It becomes emotional to them, they become infuriated with your "ruining of the game."

You will certainly see this if you are in a bubble where the big stack is a donk. After a few pushes in a row, his calling range widens closer and closer to 100%, to where he'll eventually amp himself up before the next hand, "If he pushes again I'm calling." Poker isn't about pot odds or ICM to them, it's f'ing machismo.


Another point I don't think has been mentioned is that this is why you should be pushing most of your premium hands as well, especially if you've exhausted most of your fequity with prior pushes. Nothing like pushing for the third time in a row, only this time with KK, and getting spite called by the BB's JT.

[bluefeet]

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I think it's even more than just them adjusting their calling ranges, though that obviously occurs. It becomes emotional to them, they become infuriated with your "ruining of the game."

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I know where you're going, but it IS 100% "adjusting their calling ranges". While it's important to fathom an opponents real or perceived reasons for doing so, it's never more than adjusting the range appropriately. ICM will only answer the question you give it.


EDIT: Rereading your post, I may have misunderstood the purpose of your statement. Just giving reasons why they loosen so much? Cool...

[Burno]

I didn't intend to suggest that to ICM the situation you needed to do more than loosen the ranges. I meant to convey that something beyond a normal adjustment occurs after you push several times in a row. Understanding their emotional state and what they are thinking will allow you to accurately loosen their range, as irrational as it all may seem to players like us.

[bluefeet]

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I didn't intend to suggest that to ICM the situation you needed to do more than loosen the ranges. I meant to convey that something beyond a normal adjustment occurs after you push several times in a row. Understanding their emotional state and what they are thinking will allow you to accurately loosen their range, as irrational as it all may seem to players like us.

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Cool, understood. The "passing on SNGPTSEZITSEV+" suggestion would imply then that the user simply didn't enter the correct range. Having done so, +EV is +EV of course.

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I didn't intend to suggest that to ICM the situation you needed to do more than loosen the ranges.

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What ranges are you giving for ICM calculations? I thought ICM took into account actual stack sizes rather than ranges of stack sizes.

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ICM will only answer the question you give it.

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The only answer ICM will give you is the equities based upon stack sizes.

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of course. If i had just pushed a few hands in an orbit, my range in what I push after that tightens in most situations. The main reason for this is that failing to do so ignores the fact that people start thinking you are becoming a maniac and adjust their calling ranges accordingly.

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When the other players loosen their calling range, that does not always mean you should tighten your pushing range. You should take into account the wider calling range and do what is appropriate from there. Often, but not always, this will mean tightening your pushing range.