How are people this retarted?

[Pokey]

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Are you playing for 1st or to just survive?

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This is not a rhetorical question as you may suppose, but rather an extremely misguided one. You should never "play for first." You should play to maximize your $$ expectation.

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I agree with the logic but disagree with the conclusion. Here's my reasoning:

Given Pushy McPush's pushing strategy, my AQo is likely to be quite dominant. Against a random hand, AQo wins about 2:1, and you probably looked like you were playing completely random hands. That means that two-thirds of the time I'm going to have the huge, dominant chip stack.

If I fold, the stacks will be:

4035
140
2190 <-- me
1635

ICM gives me about $15.51 for this.

If I gamble, I lose 1/3 of the time, but 2/3 of the time the stacks are:

1245
140
4980 <-- me
1635

And ICM gives me $20.71 for this. Expected payout is therefore (2/3) * 20.71 = $13.81, and the call costs me an apparent $1.70 or so.

However, this ignores the fact that if I do win, I'll shut down the thief who has been MERCILESSLY stealing my blinds. If the thief is smart (and he appears to be), then he WON'T steal the tiny stack, giving him another round or two to steal with impunity. How long can I bleed t450 every four hands and still stay in this tournament? Basically, if I win this one hand, I'm the favorite to win the whole tournament. If I lose it, I'm out of the money. If I don't play it, I'm in a horse-race for second.

Frankly, I think metagame considerations may make this a reasonable call unless you're confident the short stack won't survive this orbit. Do I think a 5+1 player was thinking about metagame issues? No. I think he was just pissed that you kept jerking off into his breakfast cereal and decided to do something about it.

[Melchiades]

Calling with AQ here is -3.6% if he pushes any two.

If he pushes any two, you should call with TT+.

[curtains]

lol yea I bet after calling with the AQo, your opponent went and looked it up in SNGPT and learned the errors of his ways. So push against him in the future, I bet he will never make this mistake again.

[ilya]

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Interesting thought process here. If you had been running over the table on the bubble as you indicate, I would most likely call the push here as well. If he wins this hand (that he is a 65-35 favorite in), he becomes the dominant chip leader and has a solid chance of taking down first place. If he folds this, then what else must he fold while the small stack is still around? What happens if the small stack makes it through the next orbit? Is this guy suppossed to just passively fold all his hands to your greatness? Not only do I not see this play as "retarded," given the information you provided, I consider it the CORRECT play. Why wait around and HOPE to spinelessly win $4? The push, IMHO, is what is suspect. The only callers you will get are the ones who have u dominated. You should have been down to about 1200 chips here.
Les

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I think this line of thinking has more merit than people generally give it credit for, but in this situation you'd be giving up too big a chunk of immediate $EV by calling with AQo for not enough future +$EV.

It's true that you will be the big stack on the bubble if you win, but you are likely to not even get an opportunity to take advantage of that. The shortie will have to survive the next hand, for one. If he does, your pushes will have to go through him. He will know that your range is likely to be extremely loose, and also that he can't hope to wait out the other stacks. So he will call you liberally. When he loses, your bubble big stack advantage will be over. When he wins, the other players will have similar stacks. None of them will feel like they can wait out the others, loosening them up & forcing you to tighten up.

And even these limited advantages will only be available to you 65% of the time at best.

If you fold, shortie will still have to survive the next hand. If he busts, you will be ITM with a solid stack & a good chance of finishing 2nd or 1st. If he wins the next hand, he will often bust on the one after that. Half his stack will be in the pot after posting the SB, and he won't have much hope of outfolding the others. Even if he plays that hand and wins it, he will still be the short stack. Not insignificantly, the big stack will most likely not be able to fold to him on that second hand.

In short, a TON of things have to go wrong in succession for you to not make the money if you fold here. And when you do make the money, you will often still have enough to make a run.

[Scott_Baio]

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Interesting thought process here. If you had been running over the table on the bubble as you indicate, I would most likely call the push here as well. If he wins this hand (that he is a 65-35 favorite in), he becomes the dominant chip leader and has a solid chance of taking down first place. If he folds this, then what else must he fold while the small stack is still around? What happens if the small stack makes it through the next orbit? Is this guy suppossed to just passively fold all his hands to your greatness? Not only do I not see this play as "retarded," given the information you provided, I consider it the CORRECT play. Why wait around and HOPE to spinelessly win $4? The push, IMHO, is what is suspect. The only callers you will get are the ones who have u dominated. You should have been down to about 1200 chips here.
Les

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[bones]

There's a reason poker will always be profitable, no matter how much information is made available. You cannot teach discipline (in this sense) and you cannot teach application. OP and the caller both made huge mistakes and both think the other is a retard (pretty safe assumption for caller, I'd think). In all likelihood, both will make the same mistake many times over. Long live poker, master of denial and self-deceit.

[bluefeet]

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In all likelihood, both will make the same mistake many times over. Long live poker, master of denial and self-deceit.

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and if anyone gets REALLY bored tonight, you can read this hitting on this point.

[DPCondit]

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In all likelihood, both will make the same mistake many times over. Long live poker, master of denial and self-deceit.

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and if anyone gets REALLY bored tonight, you can read this hitting on this point.

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I wonder if the lemon juice would disguise bluffs also.

I love to see fish make idiotic plays and suck out. That just reinforces their thought process, and they keep making those mistakes.

The caller made a horrible mistake also, unless he was really familiar with that player. I made a similar play once with AK after seeing someone go all in on 5 consecutive hands when the blinds were 25/50. He turned over 59o and lost to my A high.

[Mr_J]

I kinda laugh every time I read the subject of this topic.