Hated this, what should I have done (Stars 16 Turbo) - Page 3

Melchiades · #1 10-23-2005, 01:24 AM

Agreed that it is scared poker, but when I manage to lose chips on this flop I have all reason to be scared. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Oluwafemi · #2 10-23-2005, 01:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed that it is scared poker, but when I manage to lose chips on this flop I have all reason to be scared. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

the point is, [you didn't have too]. as soon as your huge reraise got called [by more than one villain], an Ace or a King should've been first and foremost in your mind. this was a perfect example of a flop to check/fold and avoid investing anymore chips.

#3 10-23-2005, 07:48 AM

Whenever I read responses like this I have to wonder if (s)he has noticed the size of the BB. Pushing right here is raising THIRTY TIMES THE BB! That's ridiculous! If the blinds were 50/100 or 75/150, then I understand the push with 10-15BBs. But not at the 15/30 level with 30BBs!

#4 10-23-2005, 08:04 AM

I always understood it as a general rule, if you are raising more than ~35% of your stack then you should instead push. Maybe pushing here is a little overkill but if the blinds were say 25/50, you'd need a raise of over t500 to get rid of people. Therefore, it should be a push.

Is this thinking sound?

Melchiades · #5 10-23-2005, 08:08 AM

Thats a good point. But I prefer to look at what I think the result of a push will be rather than having some set rules of what amout of BB's is accepted to push. If I had a read and felt confident I would get a call here I would push, no doubt. Also the amount of dead chips in the pot in relation to my stack comes into consideration. I do not advocate a push her, after all I didn't in the hand either. I tried to raise an amount that would get it HU. I raised a wooping 17 BB's here and got TWO callers, guess that doesn't exactly jive with your set amount of BB theory either. But I don't see the horror in a push that many of you do.

For example if you push AA preflop in a already raised pot in one of those 45 man 1.25$ SnG's in level one for example (75 BB's) you would be surprised how many times you would get the call and double up that you want.

Oluwafemi · #6 10-23-2005, 02:13 AM

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Lose less is totally irrelevant. I wanna make the play that on average wins me the most.quote]

losing less is never irrelevant. if you're gonna make the play that on average wins you the most, you also wanna make the play that on average loses you the least. if you're not concerned with how much you lose as opposed to how much you win, you've got a big problem. tell me you see that.

curtains · #7 10-23-2005, 02:31 AM

Your preflop raise was quite reasonable, however I would give up and just check fold this flop, as painful as it is.

Melchiades · #8 10-23-2005, 02:34 AM

Yeah I knew my postflop play was real bad even before posting it. Classic "can't let go of big pocket pair syndrome".

Oluwafemi · #9 10-23-2005, 10:24 AM

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Yeah I knew my postflop play was real bad even before posting it. Classic "can't let go of big pocket pair syndrome".

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this is what i mean by playing superior postflop play and having an edge on your opponents in that regard. honestly, if you feel you don't have an edge on your opponents postflop, [and i think think my response is about to fall somewhere in the realm of game theory], then your best play probably would have been to push all-in instead and count on a dominated hand calling you.

i feel you will encounter more situations postflop [against players with weaker hands] where you can extract more chips than an all-in move [at least i do]. this move is best played out on Party where an $11 or $22 only has an t800 starting stack. i like the move alot better then. however, with t1500 on PS, i don't favor it.

Melchiades · #10 10-23-2005, 10:51 AM

I am pretty confident in my postflop play. I donked it away here, but no biggie. I came back to 2000 in this SnG btw and then lost it all to the villain in this hand all in with AQ vs his A3. So he probably had a weak ace here as well.

I just don't see the big deal about the superior post flop play in this situation. When the pot is 1500+ and you have 1000 behind, there is no room to manouver.

If I remember correctly you advocated a smaller preflop raise. Why on earth would you do that, when this raise got two callers. You want more people in the pot?