Re Guns: One for the good guys

[benfranklin]

AKA, throwing raw meat into the tiger cage.

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RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil - Brazilians soundly rejected a proposal to ban guns in a national referendum Sunday, striking down the bid to stem one of the world's highest firearm murder rates following a campaign that drew parallels to the U.S. gun control debate.

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Story

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...opponents played on Brazilians' fears that the police can't protect them.

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Look at that propaganda. The sentence should read "...opponents played on the fact that police can't protect them."

Has anyone ever attempted to explain why the Swiss have one of the highest firearm ownership rates per capita and yet a very low firearm murder rate? Why wern't the swiss mentioned in Bowling for Columbine?

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone ever attempted to explain why the Swiss have one of the highest firearm ownership rates per capita and yet a very low firearm murder rate?

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Yes

[DVaut1]

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Why wern't the swiss mentioned in Bowling for Columbine?

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If I remember correctly, they were mentioned a few times in Bowling for Columbine - Moore didn't come up with any conclusions as to why gun violence was especially prevalent in the US; but he did, on a few occasions, point to the fact that other countries also have ubiquitous gun ownership but don't have the same quantity of violent crimes committed with guns.

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...opponents played on Brazilians' fears that the police can't protect them.

[/ QUOTE ]
Look at that propaganda. The sentence should read "...opponents played on the fact that police can't protect them."

Has anyone ever attempted to explain why the Swiss have one of the highest firearm ownership rates per capita and yet a very low firearm murder rate? Why wern't the swiss mentioned in Bowling for Columbine?

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No dangerous minorities?

[benfranklin]

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Has anyone ever attempted to explain why the Swiss have one of the highest firearm ownership rates per capita and yet a very low firearm murder rate?

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There may be a question of semantics here, since many Swiss don't actually own a gun, but keep a government-issued gun in their houses. One reason for their safety record may be that virtually every gun owner/user goes through extensive firearms training, and fully understands the usage, and consequences of usage, of firearms.

I have taken a number of firearms training classes, and everyone I was involved with, instructors and students, was fanatical about safety and proper usage. People who are serious about guns and about safety and training do not have accidents and are not responsible for gun violence. The cliche is that guns don't kill people, people kill people. The truth is that stupid people kill people with guns.

A big part of this is the movement of the politically correct to try to ban guns, while refusing to promote education about guns and safety. I am of a generation (older than dirt) where firearms education was considered to be a sensible alternative to ignorance. I first learned to shoot in the Boy Scouts, and one of my college P.E. electives was Marksmanship. I'm sure that the rifle range under the stadium of my alma mater has since been converted into an interpretive dance studio.

I have mixed feelings about the NRA, but their education and safety program is top notch. They have a gun safety program for kids that includes a cartoon-type pamphlet teaching kids what to do when they come upon a gun (don't touch it, leave the area immediately, and notify an adult). They distribute this material for free, and many schools won't touch it because of knee-jerk parent and teacher hysteria about anything that the NRA does, and because they seem to think that if they ignore guns, they will all go away.

[Ray Zee]

our(the u.s.) murder rate is high not because of gun ownership but because of cultural reasons. its just that those that chose to own guns and know how to use them are less likely to be one of those murdered.

unfortunately friends and family have a higher chance as well of being murdewred as well as a higher chance of being saved.
you live your life and take your chances in the situation you chose to put yourself in.

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]
There may be a question of semantics here, since many Swiss don't actually own a gun, but keep a government-issued gun in their houses. One reason for their safety record may be that virtually every gun owner/user goes through extensive firearms training, and fully understands the usage, and consequences of usage, of firearms.



I have taken a number of firearms training classes, and everyone I was involved with, instructors and students, was fanatical about safety and proper usage. People who are serious about guns and about safety and training do not have accidents and are not responsible for gun violence. The cliche is that guns don't kill people, people kill people. The truth is that stupid people kill people with guns.



A big part of this is the movement of the politically correct to try to ban guns, while refusing to promote education about guns and safety. I am of a generation (older than dirt) where firearms education was considered to be a sensible alternative to ignorance. I first learned to shoot in the Boy Scouts, and one of my college P.E. electives was Marksmanship. I'm sure that the rifle range under the stadium of my alma mater has since been converted into an interpretive dance studio.



I have mixed feelings about the NRA, but their education and safety program is top notch. They have a gun safety program for kids that includes a cartoon-type pamphlet teaching kids what to do when they come upon a gun (don't touch it, leave the area immediately, and notify an adult). They distribute this material for free, and many schools won't touch it because of knee-jerk parent and teacher hysteria about anything that the NRA does, and because they seem to think that if they ignore guns, they will all go away.

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Excellent post. Bravo.

I would like to add that long ago, in one of the many previous pro/con gun threads, I advocated that a firearm class should be mandatroy in all American High Schools. The glass would include learning to fire a rife and a pistol, say a .22 Caliber, and include gun safety and training and compeitions etc, along with responsibility and other facts about the history of firearms, both the "good and bad".

Ignorance does not solve problems in my opinion. So just like having sex education in schools, gun education should also be included.

Andy Fox agreed with me wholeheartedly. I think. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

-Zeno

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
our(the u.s.) murder rate is high not because of gun ownership but because of cultural reasons. its just that those that chose to own guns and know how to use them are less likely to be one of those murdered.

unfortunately friends and family have a higher chance as well of being murdewred as well as a higher chance of being saved.
you live your life and take your chances in the situation you chose to put yourself in.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. The "murder rate" usually cited by the media is in fact the gun-death rate, which includes suicides. In a recent op-ed piece in the local St. Paul paper, a gun-control advocate quoted a statistic of 300 gun deaths a year in Minnesota. According to her own numbers, 75% of those were suicides. The individual cases are tragic, but certainly many of them ended a lot of suffering, both for the person and for friends and family. And no one else has the right to pass judgement.

[ACPlayer]

I dont think that a mandatory firearm class in school is appropriate. I certainly would not want to be forced to sit in a class full of testorone loaded oafs pretending that freedoms can be maintained because of a gun in their possession or suggesting that guns are cool.

I do think that a mandatory gun safety class prior to the puchase of a weapon is a great idea. Perhaps an annual refresher should be included as part of the annual registration fee for the weapon.

I will address the matter to various senators forthwith.