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  #1  
Old 12-13-2005, 04:45 AM
aba20 aba20 is offline
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Posts: 146
Default second set (100 PLO8b)

I realize that I played this poorly. Is this fold standard and what is a better line.

***** Hand History for Game 3193096970 *****
$100 PL Omaha Hi/Lo - Tuesday, December 13, 03:34:40 EDT 2005
Table Table 64713 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 6: sbrugby ( $174.32 )
Seat 2: zapzipzup ( $100.87 )
Seat 8: dadleus ( $73.21 )
Seat 3: game_of_luck ( $48.28 )
Seat 10: NeedBraces ( $105.67 )
Seat 9: Wimosa ( $123.80 )
Seat 1: SaintHuck ( $98.90 )
Seat 5: TeddyKGB8111 ( $97.55 )
Seat 4: CaptainCream ( $38 )
Seat 7: PokerT1tan ( $100 )
TeddyKGB8111 posts small blind [$0.50].
sbrugby posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to sbrugby [ 7s Ts 7h Qc ]
dadleus folds.
Wimosa folds.
NeedBraces folds.
SaintHuck folds.
zapzipzup calls [$1].
game_of_luck calls [$1].
CaptainCream calls [$1].
TeddyKGB8111 calls [$0.50].
sbrugby checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jh, 3d, 7c ]
TeddyKGB8111 checks.
sbrugby checks.
zapzipzup bets [$4.75].
game_of_luck folds.
CaptainCream calls [$4.75].
TeddyKGB8111 folds.
sbrugby raises [$23.75].
zapzipzup raises [$76].
CaptainCream folds.
zapzipzup does not show cards.
zapzipzup wins $111.40
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  #2  
Old 12-13-2005, 11:56 AM
Cooker Cooker is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 159
Default Re: second set (100 PLO8b)

Your hand preflop is a POS. I would fold it almost every time. You got about as good a flop as you could reasonably hope for and are still in murky water. I think against a typical opponent this is a pretty clear fold to his reraise although if you have a read that he will bet heavily with just a nut low draw or only 2 pair (I have seen these types of people), then you probably should just move in. He could have top set which has you killed or some kind of straight/low draw which you would want to play on against. If I was him with something like A23J I would probably play it similarly to how he plays it.

I wonder about your raise on the flop. You have position and a medium strong hand on this board, so I might opt to just call the flop and see what happens on the turn. If a high card comes and they check, then I can put them on some kind of low draw and push hard. If they fire again, then I have to use my reads and decide what types of hands they play that way. If a low makes and he bets again, then I probably just fold.
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  #3  
Old 12-13-2005, 01:32 PM
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Default Re: second set (100 PLO8b)

Cooker maybe you misread the post. Hero is in BB, so the preflop call (actually a check) is obv fine. Postflop, he's then OOP, so your in-position-therefore-wait-til-turn argument doesn't make sense.

Still, I would wait until the turn to raise with this set. On that board, nearly every card that comes down is going to make a possible straight, so you're going to have to proceed with caution on this one. Just call the flop, and then get active on a nice turn (like something that pairs the board, or a Q or K). That's pretty standard procedure IMO for a middle/bottom set on a board w/ 2-to-a-low & potential wraps (or even top set on an even more draw-heavy board) when stacks are deep. If your opponent is short, then getting all-in is the right play since you're committed, and you don't want a board pair to scare some jacker away; but in this case, villain is deep so you've got to exercise restraint on the flop.

BTW, this action suggests that villain perhaps has JJ here, in which case even a nice turn would have you lose your stack. However, we're not really concerned about set over set; we just want to avoid helping our drawing opponents play their hands more correctly than they might otherwise.



About the action as it proceeded; your fold might be -EV on the flop. The only hand against which it's correct to fold is JJxx. Everything else you're priced in since you're getting around 2:1 for an all-in here. I'd probably shove my stack barring a read that this guy only moves with nuts, due to range-of-hands reasoning; plenty of players will surprise you by showing down much less than JJ here (A2xx, bottom set, worse).

Edit: actually, fk that. I'm not folding this no matter what. There's way to many hands villain could be playing that are dogs to you, even if he is a rational, tight player. If he has JJ, so be it.
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  #4  
Old 12-13-2005, 02:30 PM
Cooker Cooker is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 159
Default Re: second set (100 PLO8b)

I misread the hell out of the OP I guess. Call it too little sleep and being sick. The funny thing is I vaguely remember making sure he wasn't in the BB before I posted. Oh well, I guess I didn't. Looking over the OP, he is out of position, so my line doesn't make sense for the reasons I give. I still think you would like to see a safe turn before you start piling in money and should therefore just call the flop bet and probably donk bet any safe looking (i.e. high) turn. You are probably right that enough hands play this way that you should go ahead and move all in given the action. Certainly, most people would play top 2 pair and a nut low draw (or even any 2 pair with a nut low draw) this way, and those hands you are in pretty good shape against.
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  #5  
Old 12-13-2005, 04:55 PM
aba20 aba20 is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 146
Default Re: second set (100 PLO8b)

One of the reasons I folded were my notes on the villian were tight and only bet with very strong hands. So would everyone recommend folding to a turn 8 or lower since I have no low and could be against top set? And how do I proceed if a straight card hits. It seems like every card in the deck is bad for me and I should just check and fold this on the flop.
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