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  #21  
Old 10-28-2005, 01:14 PM
BeerMoney BeerMoney is offline
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Default Re: Weak 4th street check?

[ QUOTE ]
I give up

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? I'm not saying results are of 100% importance, I'm just not saying they have 0 importance.

You can not find the EV of a hand just by running sims. The EV comes from the decisions made by the players in the hand.

Isn't the general rule that in small ante games we try to trap and raise for value more, as opposed to higher ante games where we move people off hands, and raise to knock players out.
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  #22  
Old 10-28-2005, 01:36 PM
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Default Re: Weak 4th street check?

OK---I didn't say the amount in the pot wasn't relevent, just the fact that you happened to win that amount. You can't say, "obviously it was the right thing to do, because it won".

If you are in a game where everyone is playing (98)3 and (A4)10 ---off suits, I could see where raising at every spot would be profitable. You say you are raising for value---getting terrible hands to put in 2 bets vs. Js---then you turn around and check to them???????

If that is going to be your strategy, and you think it is correct, then keep firing away---charge 'em for playing zero. But to take this specific line of play, reraise third, check fourth, puts you in a terrible spot. You have made the pot large enough for people to start taking shots at you when you check fourth, and you aren't going to get good information. If you reraise third, and thats going to be your line of play, then go ahead and lead fourth---keep the pressure on.
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  #23  
Old 10-28-2005, 02:38 PM
MRBAA MRBAA is offline
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Default Re: Weak 4th street check?

You really have to think about situations like this in terms of expectation, not what happened in a particular hand or a few hands. Indeed, your reason for checking on fourth street uses this type of thinking -- sometimes an opponent will have a four flush, sometimes one will have an overpair. The same type of thinking on third suggests that you often have the best hand in this spot (no one has a higher door), so you bet to (a) thin the field (b) get money in while you are ahead. As the streets unfold, you get into negative implied odds territory, as your hand does not improve and other hands do. It happens that this time none of your opponents hit their hand, and you caught a good card on sixth. But I think you have -EV long-term on this play from fifth street on against the likely hands for your opponents with unimproved jacks. The pot was big here, though, so you were probably making less of a mistake and may even have been correct to draw at what may have been a 3 or 4 outer.

Without boring everyone, I'll just mention that the problem is that your outs may not be clean if your opponent happens to have a strong hand, or make one. And you will have to put in a bet on sixth if you miss, since the pot is now huge. And maybe even one on the river if you make something like a second small pair.

You've asked in other threads why your results aren't as good as you'd like. Here's a situation whre I think you initially got overly tricky and then took the worst of it hoping to suck out -- long term, this kind of play won't get the money imho.
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  #24  
Old 10-28-2005, 02:47 PM
BeerMoney BeerMoney is offline
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Default Re: Weak 4th street check?

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a situation whre I think you initially got overly tricky and then took the worst of it hoping to suck out --

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did I "suck out"?
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  #25  
Old 10-28-2005, 02:52 PM
MRBAA MRBAA is offline
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Default Re: Weak 4th street check?

It is very likely you were behind on fifth street, and if you were you probably had only one or two king outs and two jack outs to catch up.
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  #26  
Old 10-28-2005, 02:57 PM
BeerMoney BeerMoney is offline
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Default Re: Weak 4th street check?


So, my opponent checked 4th with kings up, after I checked to him?
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  #27  
Old 10-28-2005, 03:02 PM
MRBAA MRBAA is offline
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Default Re: Weak 4th street check?

You have him betting 4th
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  #28  
Old 10-28-2005, 03:09 PM
BeerMoney BeerMoney is offline
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Default Re: Weak 4th street check?


I'm retarded, i was going off of memory.
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  #29  
Old 10-28-2005, 05:11 PM
Bartholow Bartholow is offline
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Default Re: Weak 4th street check?

[ QUOTE ]
This may be the case, I play a lot lower and a lot worse than you. If you want to highlight where I am wrong, then I am grateful for this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll take your word that you play lower...
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  #30  
Old 10-28-2005, 05:12 PM
BeerMoney BeerMoney is offline
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Default Re: Weak 4th street check?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This may be the case, I play a lot lower and a lot worse than you. If you want to highlight where I am wrong, then I am grateful for this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll take your word that you play lower...

[/ QUOTE ]

Funniest thing I've ever read.
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