KK/AA typical problem for me

#1 12-16-2005, 03:35 AM

This highlights an extremely weak point in my game at least... as I feel like nothing I do on this flop has +ev. I didnt have much of a read on villain, as he recently showed up to the table. The problem for me is it feels liek I'm always losing money on the flop bet. At least for over 15k hands, it seems that on a flop of Q x x with pocket Kings or Aces that almost nothing calls in this situation unless it beats me. I've gotten almost no calls when betting in this situation. It is either fold or raise. I start to question why I even bet on this flop... with these consistent results.

How often can I expect AQ here from an average 100nl player? Should I automatically fold on a check/raise (just seems so weak to me)? If so, it would seem my bet on the flop is just to push out smaller hands, since I almost never get called, only fold/raised.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

SB ($52.10)
BB ($36)
UTG ($145.15)
UTG+1 ($39)
MP1 ($65.70)
MP2 ($114.50)
MP3 :#A500AF(villain)/ ($98)
Hero ($98.50)
Button ($93.10)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls $1, 1 fold, MP3 :#A500AF(villain)/ calls $1, Hero raises to $4.5, 1 fold, SB calls $4, 1 fold, MP1 folds, MP3 :#A500AF(villain)/ calls $3.50.

Flop: ($15.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, villain checks, Hero bets $10, SB folds, villain raises to $20, Hero calls $10.

Turn: ($55.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
villain bets $16, Hero calls $16.

River: ($87.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
villain bets $36, Hero calls $36.

Final Pot: $159.50

#2 12-16-2005, 03:40 AM

tough luck, standard in my book.

leehrat · #3 12-16-2005, 03:43 AM

i call it down. i hate this situation though.

#4 12-16-2005, 04:02 AM

It also gets really tricky if I have AA or KK sb or bb and someone raises.. i make it 2x the pot and a similar flop comes up. I feel betting will either result in Fold or Raise...

Betting feels like it limits losses against worse hands, but say on I RERAISE 2x the pot against a middle position raiser with AA from the BB, on a flop of Q 8 8 the typical bet is a Pot sized bet. I either get a fold or a raise all in here.. almost 99% of the time. The size of the bet required by me on the flop is gigantic as it is.. usually 22x the big blind. I have to put in at least an 18xbb bet just to flush out loser hands, and lose that to better hands.

Most posts i've read even state to do a pot sized bet in this situation, or similar situations where HERO reraises preflop.. BUT in my experience the only action i get when doing this is from something that beats me...

GimmeDaWatch · #5 12-16-2005, 04:14 AM

These are always tough judgement calls. You dont want to
let someone move you off an overpair when theyre just semi-bluffing with small bets or overplaying top pair, but you also dont want to welcome the milkman to town. Knowing players helps alot here. Vs a typical player, Id say youre beat 2/3 of the time here, sometimes he has AQ or spades, but will usually ease up on the river.

#6 12-16-2005, 04:24 AM

yah, it's tough to really know players w/ 8 tables goign... i suppose i need to fork over 25 bucsk for PAhud full copy

#7 12-16-2005, 04:37 AM

okay cool.. I guess i just neeed reassurance since this seems to be happening quite a bit.. and i've lost like 80% of the calls in this situation it seems like

c_strong · #8 12-16-2005, 07:09 AM

I wouldn't worry about the flop bet - don't forget that part of the point is to take the pot down there with your one pair hand, so if everyone folds you've done your job as they could have outdrawn you otherwise.

This is definitely a tough spot but I'm surprised no one likes a turn raise here. The flop mini-raise followed by the small turn bet looks to me like a Q or Ax [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] trying to snap off a c-bet. A late position raise doesn't automatically mean AA or KK to villain. If you get re-raised or called you can fold or c/f the river accordingly, and it doesn't cost you any more than your river call.