66 on the button

[shemp]

Very good, loose and fairly passive online 10/20, 9-handed right now. Seen some silly hands from all opponents.

I call with black 66 on the button after 4 limpers, both blinds play. flop is 9s3s2h. Checked to 3rd limper who bets, 4th limper raises, and I cold call and original limper calls. 3 of us see turn of Jd. Checked to 4th limper who bets.

raise, call, fold? How do you like my hand? What'd you think of the flop action?

[Barry]

It's a passive table and it's bet and raised before it gets to you on the flop.

Fold on the flop.

On the turn there are 2 overcards and a flush draw. I think that you have much the worst of it. If you couldn't find a fold on the flop, I hope that you could find it on the turn.

[sam h]

I would fold on the flop under these conditions. If you're going to play, you might as well three-bet and try and fold overcards, 77, 88, and weak nines.

[shemp]

No peekin!

I did fold on the flop. There were 3 people behind me, I thought I might be good, but I didn't like my hand in that spot. I say results oriented results because I had a mediocre session with few actual dilemmas, and I would have won this hand if I stayed the course, raising or coldcalling as 7h3h (pair of 3s) nosed Ks7s flush draw.

I was thinking about the hand afterwards, thinking that a really goot player would drag that pot somehow, 3-bet the turn in the dark, and checkraise while last to act on the river, or at least a goot player would not think about the hand afterward! I just don't see how I can win. 73s is gonna bet his 3, and the flush draw is gonna give some action in even in a passive game. Oh well. There are two reasons the hand stuck in my mind: I was a bit stuck and I would've won.

[elysium]

hi shemp
great post. you should raise the turn folding to a 3 bet.
the 4 th limper likely raised the 3 rd limper based on the weakness shown in the earlier positions. when the 3 rd limper then checks the turn, you cannot give any credence whatsoever to the turn bet. you must raise to win the pot, knock out the EP's and get heads up, and of course for a free river showdown. also notice that with all the EP's checking, the 4 th limper might be inspired to bluff at you on the river if you just call. so raising the turn helps to stop him from taking shots at you on the river.

if he calls your raise and bets into you on the river, unless you improve you can consider laying it down. you will need a reasonable amount of opponent knowledge before doing so; if you don't know this opponent you should almost always call unless triple over-carded and facing a bet. at that point, if he bets the river anyway, your turn raise gives you the confidence to safely fold on the river. when you raise the turn to keep him from bluffing on the river, you are necessarily opening the option to fold if he bets the river. so the turn is a must, must raise.

[Chris Nichelson]

NM

[Chris Nichelson]

I didn't peek.

You played the hand perfectly--although you might have, with so many limpers and sitting on the button, raised pre-flop. That would have given you momentum and some extra ways to see the showdown.

However, you played it correctly on the flop for certain. Although you happened to have had the best hand, any spade, king, seven or three could beat you, plus you were likely to have been already beat.

Be decision oriented, rather than results oriented.

[Ulysses]

I peeked. But before I peeked I was going to say that calling on the flop is terrible. Either 3-betting on that ragged flop or folding with all those players involved are both perfectly fine options. And you're far too good to worry about not seeing the river w/ 66 and multiple opponents, at least two of who seem to like a 9-high flop.

[David Sklansky]

Of course you fold on the flop. Not because there is no chance you have the best hand, but because of the chances it will be best when the smoke clears.

[elysium]

hi shemp
the flop.....hmmmm. yeah, it looks like a pretty clear fold. my previous thread picked up on the turn, i didn't really consider the flop. yeah shemp, when you get to see the flop for one bet, you usually need to flop solidly before cold-calling. these type cold-calls as andy says are the number one cause behind otherwise good players standing behind the rail.