Playing AK from Early Position

[mojobluesman]

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what i think is sometimes overdone is capping preflop. w/o a lot of dead money (only HU or 3-handed) and against a player who would only 3-bet with a premium hand, capping is spewing IMO.

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I actually agree with this. I'll cap in multiway pots but not HU or even 3handed usually. Unless I've been playing against the same guy all night and I'm trying to mix it up a bit. But it's the exception.

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I defintely agree with this.

[mojobluesman]

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what i think is sometimes overdone is capping preflop. w/o a lot of dead money (only HU or 3-handed) and against a player who would only 3-bet with a premium hand, capping is spewing IMO.

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I actually agree with this. I'll cap in multiway pots but not HU or even 3handed usually. Unless I've been playing against the same guy all night and I'm trying to mix it up a bit. But it's the exception.

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I defintely agree with this.

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Why would I want to cap heads up unless I know the guy 3 bets with crap. I am probably either even or behind a big pair. I'm only about 1/3 to hit the flop. Plus hitting the K doesn't even win it for you if he has KK or AA.

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Ok, I guess I wasn't clear enough when I said it's correct against weak players that will call with any crap like in the micros. I know that.

I'm talking about situations where an UTG raise will often if not usually get you heads up against another premium hand - very often a good pair. That situation might not be better than allowing some AJ, KT, KJ hands etc... limp in where we would have them dominated.

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Re-read the comments. What limits are you playing that you are regularly being called when you raise with AK by only AA or KK? AK is about the 3rd best starting hand, you want people calling with garbage against it. Over 37+k hands on Party it is my 3rd or 4th most profitable hand. Post a hand where you think it was correct to not raise with this pre-flop.

Does your usual AK hand go like this:
You: raise
Them: call, call, call
Flop: no A or K
You: check
Them: bet, bet, bet
You: fold "I can't win with AK at these leves because they don't respect my raises!"

[mojobluesman]

This question has nothing to do with the limits I am playing at these days or my results on the table. I always raise and I am burying my opponents. So I must be playing the hands well.

I am thinking that my strategy may not be optimal against better opponents that usually only call my UTG raise with premium pairs etc... because it gets me heads up when I am behind way too often. The limp would get me into multi way pot with just as much money in the hand. I would often have those guys dominated but they wouldn't know it because I limped. So they pay me off all the way.

[tiltaholic]

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This question has nothing to do with the limits I am playing at these days or my results on the table. I always raise and I am burying my opponents. So I must be playing the hands well.

I am thinking that my strategy may not be optimal against better opponents that usually only call my UTG raise with premium pairs etc... because it gets me heads up when I am behind way too often. The limp would get me into multi way pot with just as much money in the hand. I would often have those guys dominated but they wouldn't know it because I limped. So they pay me off all the way.

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the problem with this line of thought is that when a solid player decides to play back at you it is vastly more likely he has 99-QQ, AQ, or AJ than exactly AA or KK (or AK). so it's not really the end of the world. and most of the time overall, the solid players will fold and you take the blinds. yeehaw. free blinds!

When one of these better players raises pre-flop after you have limped with AK what do you do? Do you fold because you are obviously way behind? How many times a session do you see a slow played monster get beat by something that would have been folded if it was raised pre-flop?

If you always raise AK and are burying your oppents why do you want to change to a strategy that is designed to cost you bets?

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This question has nothing to do with the limits I am playing at these days or my results on the table. I always raise and I am burying my opponents. So I must be playing the hands well.

I am thinking that my strategy may not be optimal against better opponents that usually only call my UTG raise with premium pairs etc... because it gets me heads up when I am behind way too often. The limp would get me into multi way pot with just as much money in the hand. I would often have those guys dominated but they wouldn't know it because I limped. So they pay me off all the way.

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It's got to be very read dependent, but even then I'm not even sure that it's a good idea to limp with premium hands. You are taking a chance on letting the BB in on an unraised pot. I've taken down some pretty nice pots with rags from the BB when premium hands like AK and AQ just limped preflop. I'm always very thankful that they let me see the flop. Yes this is against weak opponents, but its pretty hard to put someone on a hand when you let them see the flop for "free". And if you're playing against better opponents who know how to play post flop, I think you've set yourself up for real trouble.

[mojobluesman]

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If you always raise AK and are burying your oppents why do you want to change to a strategy that is designed to cost you bets?

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Because something that is optimal 90% of the time may not be optimal 100% of the time.

I think people (including myself) have been simply assuming it is always right to raise from UTG with AK because it's a high value hand and because all the books say you should.

I am just questioning whether it's always right and want to hear the argument for always doing it because on some tables you'll often find yourself heads up, behind, and only hit the flop about 1/3.

If you are 1/3 to hit the flop, you are heads up and behind, putting in 1 extra bet pre flop against for one extra bet from your opponent doesn't sound so great to me.

The downside of letting extra players in is obvious. but like I said before many of those extra hands will be AJ, AQ, AT, KJ, KQ etc... Those hands will hit the flop when you do and go all the way because they have no idea you have AK because you limped.

I not saying you should limp!!!!

I'm saying it may not be as obvious as everything thinks. It may be worthy of some more thought.

* even though you specifically requested it not be discussed, it is a valid point: you are investing in a hand with lots of equity.
* When the flop hits you you will always have TPTK.
* Weaker players will not consider what an EP raiser has, and often play AQ-Ax, and they will be dominated.
* If the flop misses you, and there are no backdoor draws to speak of and your overcard outs are not clean, the hand is easy to release.

[mojobluesman]

I did a Turbo Texas Holdem simulation.

I put Bret Maverick (one of the best players) UTG against the "tough lineup" and gave him AKo every time. for 10 million hands he raised and for 10 million he limped.

His EV stats were +.519 raising and + .4345 limping.

Raising was better, but they were pretty close and this is just one player on one specific table.

I would say there are probably some conditions you are better off limping given how close it is, but I'm not sure where.

If I get a chance to play with it some more I'll let you know if I find anything.