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#41
12-19-2005, 09:50 PM
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Re: Wine and dinner
[ QUOTE ]
I hate that story about Nordstrom. It's printed in every [censored] managment textbook in existance. Edit: Also, it's made up and is also claimed by Home Depot [/ QUOTE ] Whether or not it is true (I highly doubt it is), Nordstrom should be the model for managemtnt textbooks. From working there, I remember how customer oriented they were. They would literally accept returns for anything that could remotely have possibly been sold in the store, without a receipt and without question... even going so far as to give a cash refund and not store credit here. Made for a lot of abuse, however. Edit: Sorry for the derail. 
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#42
12-19-2005, 09:54 PM
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Re: Wine and dinner
Many wine shops have tasting parties that are resonably priced($20-50) where you will get to try a sh*tload of different wines. They cater to everyone from novice to experienced. The big thing is to keep tasting. I also recommend the book The Wine Avenger.
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#43
12-19-2005, 10:27 PM
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Re: Ordering wine in restaurants
Wine advice from the Sucker:
1. Cab Sav and Merlot are generally far overpriced, and the choices on most menus aren't as good as some other big reds. If you're eating steak, look for a great Zinfindel (red, not white, otherwise known as shite) or a Syrah/Shiraz. Ask the waiter - that's what he gets paid for, and look for something big and fruity. These are excellent wines. If you're going Zin and see something from Ridge, you can't go wrong. Penfold's makes several good Shiraz/Shiraz blends that are typically good and are widely available. 2. Pinot Noir is a fantastic wine, but must be done correctly to be any good. However, with something like lamb, this is bliss. Typically, the best Pinots cost a lot, but that's what I like to drink at least 50% of the time. 3. Cabernet Franc is another widely underrated varietal. Look for it, love it. 4. If you plan on drinking lots of wine with a meal and you are thinking about what wines to get, let the waiter know that you're willing to take a bit of a flyer, but if the wine sucks, send it back. They'll end up drinking it at the bar anyway. Just make sure you order another comparable bottle of wine. If you're ordering the cheapest wine on the menu and do this though, you're a cheezeball. Just drink it if this is the case. 5. For fish, I like something like a Sav Blanc or a very dry Riesling or Gewurztraminer (sp?), but these last two are often very sweet and terrible. Chardonnay can be good, but I don't like oaky wines, which are popular for some reason (people like movie butter popcorn to drink). Chablis can be excellent, though if you don't drink cheap stuff. 6. With Italian food (red sauce), drink a nice Chianti or Sangiovese. 7. I think it's always best to order wine as soon as you sit down. Ask the people at your table if they are doing fish, steak, lamb, whatever, and go from there. If some are doing fish and others steak, get two bottles. You do this because lots of wines need to open up (letting out gases like sulphur) and this takes 30 minutes or more. Even white wine gets better as it opens up for a bit. When I'm in a big group, I order all the wine up front and have them open all of them. Often, you can taste the wine change with the meal. That's about all there is to it. Wine is truly one of those fun things in life, and I didn't realize this until I moved to California five years ago. Just keep trying lots of wines and see what you like - remember characteristics of the ones you like and don't like (i.e. lots of fruit, grassy (for whites), mineral, oaky, whatever). After awhile, you'll learn to look for certain regions that produce consistent wines that you like, and you can usually find one you like. Same thing goes or labels.
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#44
12-19-2005, 10:28 PM
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Re: Wine and dinner
Going to tastings is excellent advice.
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#45
12-19-2005, 10:29 PM
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Re: Wine and dinner
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I hate that story about Nordstrom. It's printed in every [censored] managment textbook in existance. Edit: Also, it's made up and is also claimed by Home Depot [/ QUOTE ] Whether or not it is true (I highly doubt it is), Nordstrom should be the model for managemtnt textbooks. From working there, I remember how customer oriented they were. They would literally accept returns for anything that could remotely have possibly been sold in the store, without a receipt and without question... even going so far as to give a cash refund and not store credit here. Made for a lot of abuse, however. Edit: Sorry for the derail. [/ QUOTE ] One of the more plausible versions states that the particular Nordstroms where this happened was just opened in a location where the previous occupant was a dept store that sold tires. That I might beleive, but the only evidence is random anicdotes. I like the return policy where I work. Strict-ass adherance to the written policy and a cutomer tracking databse that would make the NSA jealous. (Also sorry for the hijack)
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#46
12-19-2005, 10:30 PM
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Re: Wine and dinner
The Daver,
I disagree, but you should be up front about it. Usually, you get a wine that you don't like when you are trying something new. Usually, you talk this out with the waitperson, and they know what you are doing. This is SOP, though I usually don't find something that totally sucks. On the second bottle, though, you are compelled to drink it unless it's corked.
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#47
12-19-2005, 10:31 PM
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Re: Wine and dinner
El D,
He is right.
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#48
12-19-2005, 10:36 PM
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Re: Ordering wine in restaurants
[ QUOTE ]
Wine advice from the Sucker: 1. Cab Sav and Merlot are generally far overpriced, and the choices on most menus aren't as good as some other big reds. If you're eating steak, look for a great Zinfindel (red, not white, otherwise known as shite) or a Syrah/Shiraz. Ask the waiter - that's what he gets paid for, and look for something big and fruity. These are excellent wines. If you're going Zin and see something from Ridge, you can't go wrong. Penfold's makes several good Shiraz/Shiraz blends that are typically good and are widely available. 2. Pinot Noir is a fantastic wine, but must be done correctly to be any good. However, with something like lamb, this is bliss. Typically, the best Pinots cost a lot, but that's what I like to drink at least 50% of the time. 3. Cabernet Franc is another widely underrated varietal. Look for it, love it. 4. If you plan on drinking lots of wine with a meal and you are thinking about what wines to get, let the waiter know that you're willing to take a bit of a flyer, but if the wine sucks, send it back. They'll end up drinking it at the bar anyway. Just make sure you order another comparable bottle of wine. If you're ordering the cheapest wine on the menu and do this though, you're a cheezeball. Just drink it if this is the case. 5. For fish, I like something like a Sav Blanc or a very dry Riesling or Gewurztraminer (sp?), but these last two are often very sweet and terrible. Chardonnay can be good, but I don't like oaky wines, which are popular for some reason (people like movie butter popcorn to drink). Chablis can be excellent, though if you don't drink cheap stuff. 6. With Italian food (red sauce), drink a nice Chianti or Sangiovese. 7. I think it's always best to order wine as soon as you sit down. Ask the people at your table if they are doing fish, steak, lamb, whatever, and go from there. If some are doing fish and others steak, get two bottles. You do this because lots of wines need to open up (letting out gases like sulphur) and this takes 30 minutes or more. Even white wine gets better as it opens up for a bit. When I'm in a big group, I order all the wine up front and have them open all of them. Often, you can taste the wine change with the meal. That's about all there is to it. Wine is truly one of those fun things in life, and I didn't realize this until I moved to California five years ago. Just keep trying lots of wines and see what you like - remember characteristics of the ones you like and don't like (i.e. lots of fruit, grassy (for whites), mineral, oaky, whatever). After awhile, you'll learn to look for certain regions that produce consistent wines that you like, and you can usually find one you like. Same thing goes or labels. [/ QUOTE ] He knows what he's talking about, but this is the advanced course, not Wine Ordering 101. OP, print this out and reread in 6 months.
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#49
12-19-2005, 10:58 PM
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Re: Wine and dinner
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] NYC residents are exempt, since they aren't allowed to grill at home.) [/ QUOTE ] Whaaa? [/ QUOTE ] Yeah I was curious about this too. Anybody have an opinion of these? I don't drink much wine but I tried this and enjoyed it, the price is cheap as well. If I liked this, what other wines would you recommend me?  [/ QUOTE ]  I've had both of these. I really like the merlot and my old roommate loved shiraz so we drank a fair amount of those. Someone else mentioned Yellowtail, but I didn't like their merlot at all. It was just too boring and didn't have much taste. Maybe I suck at wine.
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#50
12-19-2005, 11:11 PM
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Re: Wine and dinner
Here's some great domestic wines under $20.
Winery: Buehler Score: 93 Wine: Zinfandel Napa Valley 2003 Highly Recommended Price: $15 Country: California Region: Napa Issue: Oct 31, 2005 Amazingly plush and supple, with a flow of ripe blueberry, blackberry, plum and wild berry fruit that goes down easy. Hints of pepper, spice and cedar flavors linger in the background, letting the fruit shine through. Drink now through 2008. 1,200 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Cliff Lede Score: 92 Wine: Sauvignon Blanc Napa Valley 2004 Smart Buys Price: $18 Country: California Region: Napa Issue: Aug 31, 2005 Vibrant and pointed, with wonderful concentration to the rich passion fruit, grass, hay, floral and lemon peel flavors. Stays deft and crisp, with a wash of palate-cleansing acidity along with a measure of harmony and finesse. Drink now through 2006. 1,140 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Novy Score: 92 Wine: Syrah Sonoma County 2003 Smart Buys Price: $19 Country: California Region: Sonoma Issue: Jul 31, 2005 A bold, rich, dark-hued wine, with roasted plum and juicy blackberry and boysenberry. Turns thick and plush at midpalate and finishes with a gush of fruit, smoky toasty oak and a touch of heat. Drink now through 2010. 1,116 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Rosenblum Score: 92 Wine: Zinfandel Paso Robles Richard Sauret Vineyards 2003 Highly Recommended Price: $19 Country: California Region: South Coast Issue: Jun 30, 2005 A delicious young Zin, with layers of ripe, zesty blackberry, boysenberry and wild berry shaded by toasty oak. Plush, rich aftertaste. Drink now through 2009. 7,029 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Buehler Score: 91 Wine: Chardonnay Russian River Valley Reserve 2002 Price: $20 Country: California Region: Sonoma Issue: Jul 31, 2005 Plump, ripe and fleshy, with a complex range of pure Chardonnay flavors built around apple, pear, spice and a hint of mint that offers a shade of anise. Keeps its focus and finishes with a lingering aftertaste. Drink now. 300 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Ferrari-Carano Score: 91 Wine: Fumé Blanc Sonoma County 2004 Smart Buys Price: $15 Country: California Region: Sonoma Issue: Jul 31, 2005 A terrific, stylistic effort. Vibrant and lively, with a delicious mix of orange rind, grapefruit, fig compote and subtle grass tones. Lemon blossom and tart quince flavors keep pumping out the intensity through the finish. Drink now through 2007. 30,000 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Kenwood Score: 91 Wine: Sauvignon Blanc Sonoma County 2004 Smart Buys Price: $13 Country: California Region: Sonoma Issue: Jul 31, 2005 Tangy, with high-toned lemon-lime, grapefruit, fig and peach flavors. Already harmonious, with a bright vibrancy that will complement food. Kenwood's at the top of its Sauvignon game. Drink now through 2007. 78,000 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Ledgewood Creek Score: 91 Wine: Sauvignon Blanc Suisun Valley 2004 Smart Buys Price: $10 Country: California Region: Other California Issue: Nov 15, 2005 What an exciting Sauvignon Blanc. Fragrant, with orange blossom, lemon-lime and grassy flavors that are intense and vibrant, picking up a green apple and tart citrus edge. It keeps pumping out the concentration through the finish. Drink now through 2007. 250 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: LinCourt Score: 91 Wine: Syrah Santa Barbara County 2003 Smart Buys Price: $20 Country: California Region: South Coast Issue: Sep 30, 2005 This wine offers a wonderful array of ripe, fleshy wild berry, blackberry and boysenberry fruit that's intense, concentrated and impeccably balanced and finishes in a long, pure aftertaste. Best from 2006 through 2012. 1,058 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Carrefour Score: 90 Wine: Sauvignon Blanc Napa Valley 2004 Price: $16 Country: California Region: Napa Issue: Aug 31, 2005 Intense, complex and concentrated, with vibrant sweet pea, green fig, grass, floral and grapefruit notes, the flavors lingering on the finish with a lemony vibrancy. Drink now through 2006. Tasted twice, with consistent notes. 340 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Chateau Souverain Score: 90 Wine: Sauvignon Blanc Alexander Valley 2004 Smart Buys Price: $14 Country: California Region: Sonoma Issue: Jul 31, 2005 Tight and concentrated. Slowly unfolds to reveal a medley of rich grass, lemon-lime, fig and floral character, with a citrus tanginess lingering on the finish. Drink now through 2006. 9,468 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Eola Hills Score: 90 Wine: Syrah Columbia Valley-Oregon Reserve 2000 Price: $20 Country: Oregon Region: Oregon Issue: Jun 30, 2005 Tastes a bit like a Barossa (Australia) Shiraz, with its tarry, licorice-scented cherry, dark raspberry and plum flavors lingering on the remarkably clear-headed, open-textured finish. Drink now through 2010. 500 cases made. (HS) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Gordon Brothers Score: 90 Wine: Merlot Columbia Valley 2002 Smart Buys Price: $15 Country: Washington Region: Washington Issue: Aug 31, 2005 Smooth and rich, a plush mouthful of sweet cherry, dried currant and dusky spice flavors that linger on the silky finish, hinting at sage as the wine persists. Drink now through 2009. 2,561 cases made. (HS) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Barnard Griffin Score: 90 Wine: Merlot Columbia Valley 2003 Smart Buys Price: $19 Country: Washington Region: Washington Issue: Oct 15, 2005 Fresh, generous and appealing for its pretty currant and blueberry aromas and flavors, remaining polished and juicy through the extended, gently spicy finish. Drink now through 2010. 5,600 cases made. (HS) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Morgan Score: 90 Wine: Chardonnay Monterey 2003 Smart Buys Price: $20 Country: California Region: Bay Area/Central Coast Issue: Sep 30, 2005 A touch floral and leafy in the aroma, but very rich and complex on the palate, with concentrated apple, pear, melon, spice and citrus notes all adding to the flavor range; the acidity gives the finish a lively edge. Drink now. 10,300 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Sebastiani Score: 90 Wine: Cabernet Sauvignon Sonoma County 2002 Smart Buys Price: $17 Country: California Region: Sonoma Issue: Oct 31, 2005 This skillfully balanced wine combines ripe, fleshy Cabernet fruit with light cedar and mocha-scented oak, letting the currant, plum and black cherry fruit shine through. A delight to drink now and over the next few years. Drink now through 2009. 52,000 cases made. (JL) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Three Rivers Score: 90 Wine: Gewürztraminer Walla Walla Valley Late Harvest Biscuit Ridge Vineyard 2003 Price: $12 Country: Washington Region: Washington Issue: Oct 15, 2005 Sweet but succulent, with lovely rose petal and orange peel overtones to the sweet pear and honey flavors, lingering well. Drink now through 2010. 536 cases made. (HS) Search for user tasting notes Select Winery: Viento Score: 90 Wine: Syrah Columbia Valley Cuvée R 2003 Price: $20 Country: Washington Region: Washington Issue: Oct 15, 2005 Rich and generous, with a lively balance of just enough acidity to keep the smoky plum and cherry flavors rolling through the long, peppery finish. Drink now through 2010. 150 cases made. (HS)
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