6max standard??

I dont take the free card if I would need it. We have almost equity so its well worth it to disguise our hand and get raised by a lower flush or two pair on the river. I would probably take it without the wheel.

[DMBFan23]

there's a really good chance these limpers suck.

sometimes I raise preflop, sometimes I don't. you're suited which is nice, but you have some high card strength as well so your hand should do well whether you let the blinds in or not. if the blinds are very aggro and will 3-bet you a lot then I'd be more inclined to call.

if I 3-bet the flop and am called in both spots then I would take the free turn card.

[McGahee]

[ QUOTE ]
if I 3-bet the flop and am called in both spots then I would take the free turn card.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm normally a big advocate of firing again on the turn, but if you don't take the free card in that spot, I can't imagine when you would.

[deception5]

This is perfect. If you get the opportunity you have to take a free card here, a turn bet is a waste of money.

[Nilbud]

[ QUOTE ]
first orbit at table no reads

Party Poker Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: bottomset is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, bottomset calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">bottomset 3-bets </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, looks good to me. You need around 13 outs here for it to be +EV even if the BB folds. I'd say your ace is worth at least one out, so I count 13. Hopefully one of them will cap it and get even more money in.

I'm less sure about what to do on the turn, but it's probably worth disguising your hand by betting rather than taking the free card.

[Nilbud]

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a turn bet is a waste of money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Is there no value in disgusing your hand, or are we afraid of a raise?

[TheKentock]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
a turn bet is a waste of money.

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Why? Is there no value in disgusing your hand, or are we afraid of a raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

At these limits, I think people will see our check on the turn as straight-up weakness, not as a free card play. I get the feeling that the vast majority of ML players haven't even Heard of a free card play, much less noticed someone else pulling it on them. If you check through on the turn, a lot of TP hands or even second pair hands will bet into you, which is perfect if your heart hits.

[deception5]

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Why? Is there no value in disgusing your hand, or are we afraid of a raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

With the strength shown on the flop we aren't getting anyone to fold with a turn bet. A turn c/r is very possible, especially if the player isn't very good at hand reading (realizing that you might take a free card).

The biggest problem is that if we have 2 opponents on the turn and we bet, we are losing more money than we will make up if we improve on the river by disguising our hand. A decent opponent isn't going to give us a ton of action when the flush comes in and we raise whether we bet the turn or not.

I should elaborate though. If someone folds and it's heads up on the turn a bet is fine.

[Nilbud]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why? Is there no value in disgusing your hand, or are we afraid of a raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

With the strength shown on the flop we aren't getting anyone to fold with a turn bet. A turn c/r is very possible, especially if the player isn't very good at hand reading (realizing that you might take a free card).

The biggest problem is that if we have 2 opponents on the turn and we bet, we are losing more money than we will make up if we improve on the river by disguising our hand. A decent opponent isn't going to give us a ton of action when the flush comes in and we raise whether we bet the turn or not.

I should elaborate though. If someone folds and it's heads up on the turn a bet is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do things change if it's HU on the turn? Are we betting hoping to get villan to fold?

[Reqtech]

While it is normally read dependant, I also typcially raise preflop here especially since I'm new to the table and I want my opponents to fear me. OTOH, if both limpers have low VPIP , I would just limp.

Raising pf would change the flop action, but in this scenario I would also 3 bet and then take the free card given the oppurtunity. Highly doubtful that MP folds.