42% to the flop?????

kiddj · #1 06-16-2005, 01:49 PM

While home on my lunch break I opened up Absolute to see what the mid-day action was like. Skimming over the table list and I see a $5/$10 full ring table with 42% to the flop!!!! I decided to observe a few hands. The first hand consisted of an EP PFR, 2 cold-callers and both the blinds called. WTF??? Is $5/$10 really like this? If so, what the hell am I wasting my time at $1/$2 for? (Besides to build a $5/$10 bankroll. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img])

jba · #2 06-16-2005, 02:14 PM

There are definitely fishy tables at most limits I've looked at. It seems like a lot of people around here really get stuck on limit levels being some unbreachable thing. It really is possible to find a 5/10 table with worse players than your typical 1/2 table, and if you can find one and you're rolled for 5/10, I dont see how you can't sit down. once you sit down it's just chips anyways right?

kiddj · #3 06-16-2005, 02:20 PM

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There are definitely fishy tables at most limits I've looked at. It seems like a lot of people around here really get stuck on limit levels being some unbreachable thing. It really is possible to find a 5/10 table with worse players than your typical 1/2 table, and if you can find one and you're rolled for 5/10, I dont see how you can't sit down. once you sit down it's just chips anyways right?

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Lol. So if I have ~$1200 roll, and I come across a juicy 5/10, it's not considered idiotic to plop down with $250 and take a shot? (I'm a little risk averse, if it's not obvious.)

brettbrettr · #4 06-16-2005, 02:22 PM

100 BBs is a shot. 300+ is a roll. If you can't afford $1k then I don't think its a great idea.

jba · #5 06-16-2005, 02:30 PM

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100 BBs is a shot. 300+ is a roll. If you can't afford $1k then I don't think its a great idea.

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I don't think I really get what you mean with the 100?

I guess I don't understand why 25bbs cant be a "shot"? If you can afford the 250 of course.

brettbrettr · #6 06-16-2005, 02:32 PM

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I guess I don't understand why 25bbs cant be a "shot"? If you can afford the 250 of course.

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Because 25 bbs is nothing and you wouldn't be giving yourself much of a shot at all.

kiddj · #7 06-16-2005, 02:37 PM

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I guess I don't understand why 25bbs cant be a "shot"? If you can afford the 250 of course.

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Because 25 bbs is nothing and you wouldn't be giving yourself much of a shot at all.

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That is my normal buy-in at a table. That table I saw had at least 2 to 3 fishy people going too far with their hands. I RARELY get a table like this at Poker Stars. As long as I don't play scared and I don't care about the $250, I'm thinking this may be worth it.

I appreciate the discussion though. Thanks!

jba · #8 06-16-2005, 02:41 PM

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I guess I don't understand why 25bbs cant be a "shot"? If you can afford the 250 of course.

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Because 25 bbs is nothing and you wouldn't be giving yourself much of a shot at all.

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ok, I guess I get that.

my situation is -- I have a sufficient roll for 5/10 but currently I would only confidently say that I can beat your avg PP 2/4 table. However I am constantly watching for favorable 3/6 and 5/10 tables, and whenever I see one I just buy 25bbs and sit down.

I guess you could say I'm a 5/10 player, with a 300bb roll, but only play tables where I feel comfortable that I'm getting the best of it. and that is usually 2/4.

my point was, I suspect many people around here are overrolled for the limit they are playing, and if that's the case why not look for the biggest beatable game that you're rolled for?

flair1239 · #9 06-16-2005, 02:49 PM

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There are definitely fishy tables at most limits I've looked at. It seems like a lot of people around here really get stuck on limit levels being some unbreachable thing. It really is possible to find a 5/10 table with worse players than your typical 1/2 table, and if you can find one and you're rolled for 5/10, I dont see how you can't sit down. once you sit down it's just chips anyways right?

[/ QUOTE ]
Lol. So if I have ~$1200 roll, and I come across a juicy 5/10, it's not considered idiotic to plop down with $250 and take a shot? (I'm a little risk averse, if it's not obvious.)

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I am going to take the other side of this argument. But before I do let me qulaify my statement. If your bankroll is replaceable, go right ahead. My bankroll at this point (to play at a 5/10 level) is not replaceable by my income. If I get wiped out I could probably scrape together $300 to start over, but that is it.

If your BR is not easily replaceable read on:

Some of my biggest (1) day losses have come at "Juicy" tables. My biggest single table losses have come at juicy tables. If I were able to isolate my "juicy" table sessions, I imagine I would find much higher variance, than the normal semi-tight with 1-3 donk tables.

Furthermore and I am not trying to make it sound like 5/10 is full of rocket scientists (or trying to make it sound like I play an elite level), but the average donk at 5/10 and the average donk at 1/2 in my experience are very different. I could write an essay, but I will sum it up saying that the average 5/10 donk applies inappropriate aggression at uncomfortable times. I am talking on average, yes there are players who are just as bad as any .5/1 bad player, but they are not as common. It took me a while to sharpen the skill set that is needed to handle these players.

Another thing to consider is that at that table you saw on Absolute. Depending what seat is available it might not be worth sitting down. One of the hardest skills I have had to develop has been to leave a table with 4-5 Loose Aggressive/Maniac players, because my relative postition has sucked. These players have the ability to cost you money without making any themselves (playing with these people OOP takes a lot of adjustment and IMO is not always +EV depending how they play).

So anyway say you sit with your 25BB and at the end of the session you are down 17BB. How long is that going to take you to earn back at 1/2 (85BB)?

So to sum up:
-Juicy game... High variance.
-Donks at said game while not winning players, may be tougher than they appear.

-A loss sets you back along way in your BR building

Just my thoughts.

brettbrettr · #10 06-16-2005, 02:49 PM

I don't think its a problem at all, in fact, just the opposite--not enough people take stabs at higer games.

I just don't think you should think that if you run bad you "took your shot" with 25bb's. Really, all you did is sit and get dealt a few second best hands. Happens to everyone.