Limping QQ under the gun

[erc007]

Once upon a time an old wise man told me to get your money into the middle of the table when you have the best cards. I now realize that he may have been suffering from Alzheimer's.
Thank you for enlightening me.
Seriously though...thanks for the discussion. I do see your points as well, and I do think that you sound like a solid, thinking, player...good luck and may the flop bring a queen (when you are on the button.) [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[TheWorstPlayer]

The main reason is position and pot control. If you're playing OOP against tough opponents with deep stacks you don't really want to play a big pot with just one pair. So you can limp QQ and then try to play a small pot if you flop an overpair or a big one if you flop a set. Seems reasonable to me. I'm not saying I wouldn't raise it, because of course I would, but I am saying that I may also limp it. No reason not to. I don't think you give up a lot by not raising it preflop and if you gain something postflop it is almost certainly worth it.

[akishore]

[ QUOTE ]
Once upon a time an old wise man told me to get your money into the middle of the table when you have the best cards. I now realize that he may have been suffering from Alzheimer's.
Thank you for enlightening me.
Seriously though...thanks for the discussion. I do see your points as well, and I do think that you sound like a solid, thinking, player...good luck and may the flop bring a queen (when you are on the button.) [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, I wasn't sure what to make of the first part of your post.

Thanks for the compliment, but again, I don't pretend to believe I am a perfect player or anything near it. I brought up this discussion precisely to analyze if what I'm doing is good/bad/okay.

Aseem

[akishore]

[ QUOTE ]
The main reason is position and pot control. If you're playing OOP against tough opponents with deep stacks you don't really want to play a big pot with just one pair. So you can limp QQ and then try to play a small pot if you flop an overpair or a big one if you flop a set.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, this sums up basically everything I've been trying to say.

I really have a problem with brevity, can you tell? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]


[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying I wouldn't raise it, because of course I would

[/ QUOTE ]
This made me laugh. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


Aseem

[akishore]

In case anyone is interested in following the mid/high stakes no limit forum discussion:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=3570444

Aseem

[j0wlev]

I don't like limping with QQ UTG/UTG+1 because at these stakes there is alotta limping and people playing Ax and Kx liberally.

Let's not forget why we raise...

1. To thin the field
2. To get money into the pot
3. For information

Without raising you are probably going to face a large number of opponents OOP without any idea of what kinda hands they have. You'll end paying off hands that wouldn't have called a PFR, losing to hands that you'd be able to fold had you raised and had a read on the situation.

Edit: The only situation where I would limp with QQ in EP is if an overly-aggro was on the button or in the stradle. Someone who always raises in these postions, and makes a standard conitinuation bet, but would fold a hand like AT,AJ,KJ, etc. to your EP raise because of my table image.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Here's a thought experiment for you guys: what if your lineup is a bunch of nasty fuckers. If you limp UTG, then everyone else behind you will either limp if they have good implied odds hands, raise if they think they can isolate, or fold if they have real trash and not much chance of isolating. If you raise, they will call with good implied odds hands, raise monsters, but will also raise some total trash or SCs or small PPs or whatever if they think they can isolate you. Everyone has 400bb.

Think about different courses of action. I think limping QQ UTG can be pretty sweet here.

[amoeba]

you aren't as good out of position postflop, thats why you limp. if you have a big edge postflop against your opponents even out of position, of course you would raise preflop for value.

[whittiphil]

Thanks, this is good reasoning

[Malachii]

I'd much rather limp AK out of position than QQ.