JJ vs scary flop

RockPile · #1 04-17-2005, 05:10 PM

No read on the villian.. I'm trying not to play scared and be aggressive in the larger pots, so far its been working good (thanks Shillx). How was the line on this one?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 5 folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls.

Pretty standard..

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds.

Since I was the pre-flop raiser I feel I should bet here.. however the board is a little scary, but I've got the J so not too bad if another heart falls.

Turn: (5 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.

Hmm. I think the 3-bet may have been a little too aggressive, obviously anyone with a heart would have stayed in to see the turn, was this wrong?

River: (11 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

hmmm... should I have bet this? Probably not I think, if he bet I would have called.

Final Pot: 11 BB

cold_cash · #2 04-17-2005, 05:12 PM

After the turn action I'm betting the river.

[ QUOTE ]
Probably not I think, if he bet I would have called.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then bet.

RockPile · #3 04-17-2005, 05:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
After the turn action I'm betting the river.

[ QUOTE ]
Probably not I think, if he bet I would have called.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you bet out the river and get raised do you fold it? For 1 BB I can get the showdown just check/calling. If I lead out and he raises I'm likley beat - why chance it?

Shillx · #4 04-17-2005, 05:18 PM

PF and flop are good. The turn bet is good as you know. When he raises you, you have to be thinking one of a few things:

1) Strong flush (like the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img])
2) Stone bluff

You raised preflop, so it is doubtful that you would have a weak flush here. So if you are the villian with a hand like 99 w/ a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], you really can't be confident enough in your hand to raise. However, if he doesn't have a flush he might be able to move you off a hand like A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. So when he raises the turn I'm calling down as I want him to continue his bluff if that is what he is doing. If he has the goods obviously I lose more by going to war with the worst of it.

Brad

cold_cash · #5 04-17-2005, 05:21 PM

Because the Pary .50/1 players will cap the turn if you're beat.

If you were playing this hand against a good/thinking player who might not cap the turn with a better hand, you've got some thinking to do. I'm assuming you're opponent is not that player.

You should also stop the action right after your river check so we can't all see that he didn't bet the river.

cold_cash · #6 04-17-2005, 05:22 PM

Shill, you check and call this river after the way the turn went?

Shillx · #7 04-17-2005, 05:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shill, you check and call this river after the way the turn went?

[/ QUOTE ]

No I would bet. You made the key point above about his calling of the 3-bet meaning that we are good.

Brad

toss · #8 04-17-2005, 05:26 PM

I'd like to know why you 3-betted it then checked the river. Were you going for a checkraise?

You have the 3rd nuts. More often than not I would call his raise and check call the river.

grjr · #9 04-17-2005, 05:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shill, you check and call this river after the way the turn went?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not Shill but for the Villain to raise but not cap I feel there's a good chance he has the Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

Shillx · #10 04-17-2005, 05:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Shill, you check and call this river after the way the turn went?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not Shill but for the Villain to raise but not cap I feel there's a good chance he has the Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you see the problem with this logic?? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

If he has the Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] he will call our river bet and we lose 1 BB. However if we check, he will surely bet and then our check/call costs us 1 BB as well. The problem with checking is that we get a call from the T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and what not (and he might check these hands behind).

Brad