Totally lost TPWK - weird hand

[jhall23]

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Does anyone have any experience with these bet sizes in this situation? What do you think they mean? He bets tiny on the flop, reasonable on the turn, and then small again on the river? Weird. And I viewed a flop raise as a bluff essentially, so I wasn't too happy about it, but I didn't want to fold, but I don't really like my call...I suck at poker.

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I remember a good post by KKF about these marginal spots where he advised to raise it up on the flop. I can't seem to find it though. Your right it's pretty much like a bluff, cause your done if called. But your hand while it may be best is really weak and vunerable to a crap load of cards and you won't feel comfortable calling down as bets get bigger on each street (sans a good read of course). So just put pressure on the flop and win the pot right there. I feel good about putting occasional pressure on the flop with air, vulnerable crap like this, semi-bluffs and Monsters. I feel fine raising the first two cause it's a simple muck if villian raises or stays in the pot. Those WA/WB spots with a less vulnerable hand I'm often calling to see the turn and villians action there. Or with a less vunerable hand like a big Overpair when there is a flush draw and if it blanks on the turn we have much better equity against their range. I know you have advocated this in the past as well.

Ghaz's explaination on the betting sequence was what popped into my head on first thought. He puts you on overs and bets weak hoping you'll fold. Since it pretty much blanks on the turn he fire's big trying to get a fold.

[thatpfunk]

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Does anyone have any experience with these bet sizes in this situation? What do you think they mean? He bets tiny on the flop, reasonable on the turn, and then small again on the river? Weird. And I viewed a flop raise as a bluff essentially, so I wasn't too happy about it, but I didn't want to fold, but I don't really like my call...I suck at poker.

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On the flop, depending on the opponent, I often find it is either a random draw or something like A9. I think Ghaz has the turn and river bets pretty nailed.

On the river you have to call for the times it was some PP, but I expect to be beaten pretty often.

[intheflatfield]

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I read him as

Flop: "I bet my draws small and my made hands big. I'm on a draw, and since the flop is rainbow, I'm on an OESD."

Turn: "I made my straight, betting bigger now."

River: "I'm surprised you're still here, but since you are I'll just value bet this puppy."

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This is my take as well FWIW. It's still a tough situation, but I don't think he has trips. IMO, had that been the case he would have been more likely to check the turn, trying to induce a bluff.

[fuzzbox]

My take ...

Flop "Im strong, please raise me"
Turn "Bah, you didnt raise me ... have THIS"
River "Sh1t the flush got there, better block"

Alternate line
Flop "Im drawing, please keep it cheap ... not that it matters, Im planning to call your raise"
Turn "Made my str8 ... HAVE THIS"
River "damn the flush got there, better block"

Course, it could be 77 :-).

[wdeadwyler]

Definately raise the flop, he didnt even pot it.

[djoyce003]

I think he flopped an OESD and hit it on the turn.

[TheWorstPlayer]

All,

These are really great responses. Thanks, guys. I'm quite interested in hearing more about if you raise the flop and he calls and you check the turn behind and he bets (either small or big) on the river do you ever call? Also, as played on the flop, does anyone do anything differently on the turn or river?

TWP

[4_2_it]

Raise the flop, I think a re-raise allows you to get away and it might get you to the river free where you can call a value bet for a cheap showdown.

As played, fold the turn. At the 200's , when I come across guys betting like this it seems to be they have a solid (set or 3rd nut straight), but not great hand and don't know how to play it, but they know enough to know they should be betting. So they bet goofy amounts which have no rhyme or reason to a thinking player.

If this guy was bluffing three barrels, then you have just found an undiscovered ATM.

[wdeadwyler]

We of course check behind on the turn. Ill prob fold to almost all river bets, except maybe like 1/3 pot or so. If he bets less than half I will do some thinking (and prob muck), if he bets more than half I am mucking 100% of the time.

These don't seem like weird bet sizes at all for an over pair (or AK). Flop there are no obvious draws so he bets 1/2 pot - textbook. Turn - there is now a spades draw so he bets 2/3 pot, not to give this draw odds - a little weird, because it is a backdor draw, but ok. And the river is a blocking bet against the mad back door flush draw.

Edit: Oh, and raise the flop.

Edit edit: And I know there is a straight draw, but that is not an "obvious" draw to most players at this level.