2 100/200 blind war hands

[etizzle]

this should be a call at all limits IMO.

Remember you are getting 3-1 and you have position. If you flop any pair or draw you will probably able to take it down.

also, if you wont be able to take it down with a draw usually, then you will get paid enough on your one pair hands to make it worthwhile. i.e. if they never fold A high or K high on T72 flops and the like then when it does come T82 you will get make enough to make up for all the flops when you just fold.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]

Turn A putting a 2 flush up there, he bets I raise again (planning to follow through on the river of course)

[/ QUOTE ]

I just don't get this at all. Here are some reasons why I don't understand this play.

1. You didn't reraise preflop eliminating some big ace hands.
2. You raised a relatively harmless flop which means you could have a pair, draw, or nothing. Many weak holdings.
3. He raised preflop. Many of his hands will contain an ace.
4. The turn puts a new draw on the board so he might put you on a flush draw and call down lighter.

If it was me, I might have a Q planning on checkraising the turn. The ace might scare you so I don't. I'd call down your raise with basically any Q here.

I might also have an ace. Autobet the flop, calling the raise. I might plan on calling down unimproved or check-folding depending on what the board brings. When the ace comes on the turn I bet for value thinking you'll check behind small pairs fearing the ace. When you raise I'll call down (possibly donking the river).

The river followthrough seems particularly terrible as I can't think of a hand I would call the raise on the turn ad fold the river. I would have to be unpaired. I wouldn't call the turn with JTo getting 7-1. KJ, KT are remote possibilities but I think they are outweighed by my legitimate pair hands.

Do you think a picked up flush draw comprise a large part of his hand range? What am I missing?

Krishan

[mscags]

[ QUOTE ]
this should be a call at all limits IMO.

Remember you are getting 3-1 and you have position. If you flop any pair or draw you will probably able to take it down.

also, if you wont be able to take it down with a draw usually, then you will get paid enough on your one pair hands to make it worthwhile. i.e. if they never fold A high or K high on T72 flops and the like then when it does come T82 you will get make enough to make up for all the flops when you just fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what are you folding?

EDIT: Not trying to be a jerk, just curious.

[DcifrThs]

irish boy,

what hands to you play like this:

[ QUOTE ]
Folded to him and he raises, I call with X... Flop Q97r. He bets I call.

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Barron

[etizzle]

23o, 25o, J2-J6o, Q2-Q6o, 47o, 83o, 94o, stuff like that

[Surfbullet]

you fold Q6 and J6 but not 86? that doesn't make so much sense to me since high card power + pairing is more important HU than the rare straight?

Or, do you expect to be able to pick up pots w/ semibluffs when you flop straight draws which are more frequent?

Surf

[etizzle]

well in terms of showdown value youre never really going to be showing down Q high or J high, although a pair of Qs or Js will sometimes beat his pair of 8s or 9s and that is significant.

but yeah, occasionally making a str8 and possibly getting a lot of bets in, and being able to semibluff on a lot of low flops makes 86o> J6o IMO. Also you are less likely to be dominated with 86o.

[ QUOTE ]
well in terms of showdown value youre never really going to be showing down Q high or J high, although a pair of Qs or Js will sometimes beat his pair of 8s or 9s and that is significant.

but yeah, occasionally making a str8 and possibly getting a lot of bets in, and being able to semibluff on a lot of low flops makes 86o> J6o IMO. Also you are less likely to be dominated with 86o.

[/ QUOTE ]
Does this mean 54o > Q4o and 43o > K3o?
I'm not being funny, just curious as to where you draw the line.

[Magikist]

Well, the turn decision in the first hand is difficult. Raising just screams bluff. Considering the alternatives: Folding is pretty bad for your image. You could call and hope he checks to you on the river, where a bluff bet is more convincing. Risky proposition.

One factor people seem to have ignored is that this is a relatively new confrontation. First impressions are critical. Let's say you bet and raise w/ 68 at every opportunity, and your new opponent calls down w/ his pair of aces, expecting you to show a monster. His note on you is going to be nasty, and he'll remember you for that donkey play more than anything else. Exploited correctly, this maniacal image is extremely valuable.

Anyway, the ace falling on the turn is simply terrible luck. There are no good choices, but all of them are legitimate. Raise 40%, fold 40%, call 20% - or something like that.

With no history with your opponent, the turn raise in hand 2 is OK. The problem is, you'll almost always get called, because there aren't too many hands out there that don't have some kind of draw. Nevertheless, you have as many as 14 outs, and it's always good to test new opponents to see what you can get away with. Just expect to have to fire the river. Again, these plays are expensive propositions.

I wonder if one of the best ways to adjust to ultra-agressive games is simply to almost never bluff?

[etizzle]

personally i will play the 54o and not the Q4o usually, but would prefer K3o to 43o. K high will win enough showdowns to overcome the things i mentioned in the previous post.