More min-raising: now we're OOP

jonnyUCB · #1 08-08-2005, 05:14 PM

Villian is a bad and loose player. The min-raise is his only source of aggression, otherwise he's a passive calling station. Here are our last two encounters (Villian is CO in the first hand, and BU on the second):

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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) converter

MP ($433.55)
CO ($433.60)
Button ($444.40)
SB ($236.60)
Hero ($473.75)
UTG ($188)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $8, CO raises to $12 (Villian is min-raising a min-raise preflop), 1 fold, SB calls $10, Hero calls $8, MP calls $4.

Flop: ($48) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $30, MP folds, CO calls $30, SB calls $30.

Turn: ($138) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $140, CO calls $140, SB folds.

River: ($418) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $252, CO calls $251.60 (All-In).

Final Pot: $921.60

Results in white below: 
Hero has 4s 6s (flush, ace high).
CO has Kd Js (two pair, kings and jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins $921.59. 

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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) converter

Button ($791.65)
SB ($680.85)
BB ($165.95)
UTG ($400.40)
Hero ($386.60)
CO ($429)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $16, 1 fold, Button raises to $28 (another min raise) , 2 folds, Hero calls $12.

Flop: ($64) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($64) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($64) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $30, Button calls $30.

Final Pot: $124

Results in white below: 
Hero has Jd Jh (two pair, jacks and sevens).
Button has As Qc (one pair, sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins $124. 

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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (5 handed) converter

Button ($940.65)
SB ($558.85)
BB ($172.85)
Hero ($447.60)
MP ($436.40)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $16, MP calls $16, Button calls $16, SB calls $14, 1 fold.

Flop: ($68) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets $12, Hero raises to $42, MP folds, Button raises to $72, SB folds, Hero ???

What should be our plan vs a raise that could mean anything? From the JJ hand, I assumed he would respect my bets but against this player, I wasn't sure what he was thinking.

Would your plan change holding AA or KK?

djoyce003 · #2 08-08-2005, 05:21 PM

well he reraised with AQ so we know that he'll reraise. i think you can rule out AA or KK in his hand. The question becomes does he have a set or a draw.....if he's a calling station I really can't see him raising a draw here. I'd put him on a set or two pair...is he a big enough donkey to raise with A7 here?

Absent reads, I think i'd call and lead a non-diamond turn, if he raises that i'm done.

gulebjorn · #3 08-08-2005, 05:24 PM

Hand 1: this looks like a fold preflop, rest looks great. NH.

Hand 2: I'm probably betting this turn after the flop weakness. River value bet looks fine.

Hand 3: Button looks like an agressive draw (i'm assuming this is not the loose passive guy from hand 1 and 2). Simply calling down looks dangerous here because any diamond or straight card is a scare card. I think you either play it safe and fold in hopes of picking a better spot, or you reraise big (like, to 200) and try to separate the draws from the sets this way. This is a tough one though.

Edit: woops, thought you were looking for comments on all three hands. Meanwhile, Djoyce recommended calling, which I thought was the worst option. And this IS the loose and bad player, so this looks more like a set than a draw to me. I don't see bad and passive players raising their draws like that. Bleh, just ignore everything I said. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I need to go to sleep.

jonnyUCB · #4 08-08-2005, 05:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 3: Button looks like an agressive draw (i'm assuming this is not the loose passive guy from hand 1 and 2).

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I might not have mentioned, all three hands have the same villian. Hand 3 is the one I'm primarily concern with. I think the fact that it's the same villian should be the main factor in deciding the proper action. I'm not sure he'd raise with a draw here.. but I can't be certain seeing as the two previous hands are just baffling.

Concerning the reraise, if I reraise to 200, we're check/folding if he calls, right?

#5 08-08-2005, 05:34 PM

Your decision on hand 3 is tough. Your villain may have a pattern of minraising with big face cards in the hole (have you seen any non-minraises from him?) Or the pattern might just be an artifact of the hands you posted/saw him showdown.

I think I trust the pattern here, and put him on a draw. Maybe something like KQs, or AQ again. In any event, I would play AA, KK, or the queens you actually had the same way, and assume he was on a big draw. So, call his minraise, reraise, or push? Maybe I am weak-tight, but I call his raise and push a non-diamond turn.

jonnyUCB · #6 08-08-2005, 05:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
well he reraised with AQ so we know that he'll reraise.i think you can rule out AA or KK in his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the time I was about 75% certain you are right. His preflop actions are baffling though.. so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.

[ QUOTE ]
is he a big enough donkey to raise with A7 here?

[/ QUOTE ]
Who knows.

[ QUOTE ]
Absent reads, I think i'd call and lead a non-diamond turn, if he raises that i'm done.

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What reads do you have? You're working with all the information I had.

I like your line a lot.. but with the pot at 210 on the turn, is there possibly a safe turn bet? Bet 70, fold to a min raise? How do you like checking?

jonnyUCB · #7 08-08-2005, 05:40 PM

Do you think there's any possibility we're beat? Taking into account the last two hands we've played.. do you think he should think I have SOME sort of hand?

#8 08-08-2005, 05:50 PM

sure there's a chance we are beat. He didn't minraise preflop, he just called, right? so maybe he has a set of sixes or sevens and we are facing a garden variety minraise with a set.

Here's why I don't play according to that thinking, though: You say he is a bad player, that he's loose and baffling? We are not crediting this guy with a lot of skills, right? He's maybe new to poker, more money than sense (playing at that level). You have smoked him a couple of times just before this hand. I gotta think if he has you, I mean really has you like a set KNOWS he has you, and on a draw heavy board, he pushes or raises big for revenge (if you call) or to protect his set from the flush.

I wouldn't even have thought of this except for the apparent pattern in his minraises.

But, if you don't trust the pattern, then, yeah, you credit him with two pair or a set and you call the minraise and get to the river as cheap as possible, if you can.

(I also went back and looked at the pot and the stacks and I think pushing a non-diamond turn is way too much. So just a good bet on the turn).

djoyce003 · #9 08-08-2005, 05:56 PM

ugh this hand is just so ugly i'm not sure. I would probably lead about 70 because if i'm ahead I don't want him drawing for free and if I'm behind I don't want to commit any more to this pot. I'm really thinking this might not be a draw though because in hand 1 he had a draw to the second nuts there and he never raised that or anything. If he does have a draw its a really big one, SF variety. I think the best card you could see on the turn other than a queen of course is a 2...76 is a real possibility for him. I really hate these spots.

jonnyUCB · #10 08-08-2005, 06:19 PM

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I really hate these spots.

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Agreed. The more I think about it the more I don't mind checking as I don't see myself facing huge bets on the turn and river, because he's passive. Then again, a 70$ lead probably wont get raised by a worse hand, but I think i'd be more comfortable check/calling 80 then betting 70 and folding to a raise. Maybe I'll give him a free card in exchange for some pot control.

The line I took was probably the worst of all [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]