B&M 6/12: TT in the SB

[zram21]

The villan in this hand was very loose and very passive pre-flop and very passive post-flop. He was willing to play and call raises pre-flop with any two suited, anything remotely connected, any A and any K.

Hero is dealt T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the SB.

3 folds, Villan calls, 3 folds, Button calls, Hero raises, BB folds, Villan calls, Button calls. 3 players to the flop for 7 SBs.

The flop comes 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero bets, Villan calls, Button folds. Two to the turn for 4.5 BBs.

The turn is the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero bets, Villan calls. Two to the river for 6.5 BBs.

The river is the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero????

[QBert]

You may as well value bet here. Villain probably has a 6 or a 3 and was hoping to catch 2-pair/trips. If the A gave him 2-pair, he will likely raise your bet (you fold; -1 BB). If the A didn't give him 2-pair, he may call but will probably fold as he will fear you caught it (potential for +1 BB). If you check, you are put in the difficult position of having to pay off a river bet unless you know he would never try to steal here, so you will lose 1 BB by either checking or betting. If you check and he checks with a worse hand he would have called you with however (77?), you lose. So a value bet is in order. My policy against calling stations is, "When in doubt, value bet." He probably won't pay you off is his hand is worse, but you can't fold for one bet so you may as well bet yourself.

[mister]

Well what kind of holdings can you put him on here ?

This player sounds like he'll call your river bet if you make one, so long as he's touching (or has a pocket pair). With that in mind, I don't think I have a problem with checking and calling the river.

You hope he's got something like 44, 55, 66, 77, or maybe something like J9s (which kept him around once that K of spades hit). But if he's got something like A4s, that river card just sunk you.

I like check and call on the river, but I'm no expert.

[mister]

Qbert I like that answer [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I never consider the value bet (shows how much I have to learn). If you're going to check and call, you're in as good shape to bet and fold (same thing money wise).

Nice, I learned somethign new

[QBert]

Another advantage to betting this river is that you may cause a poor player to fold Qx here. He will fear you when you continue to bet out after the ace drops and I have seen many players with a low pair call, call to the river regardless of pot size and fold if the bettor continues to show strength and he has not caught 2-pair. Granted, Q is not low, but it's worth a shot with 2 overcards and your SB preflop raise.

This is one of those situations where a worse hand might call and a better hand might fold.

[chief444]

The only advantage of checking is that a very passive player will never value bet a worse hand so you could fold to a bet, IMO. A king or queen will very likely give you a free showdown. On the other hand a 3 or 6 or worse pocket pair probably pays off. So I can see an argument for either bet/fold or check/fold. I'd likely bet since the K & A came after the flop. Although if I though the player wansn't quite loose enough to pay off with any pair I'd check/fold.

[belloc]

[ QUOTE ]
The only advantage of checking is that a very passive player will never value bet a worse hand so you could fold to a bet, IMO. A king or queen will very likely give you a free showdown. On the other hand a 3 or 6 or worse pocket pair probably pays off. So I can see an argument for either bet/fold or check/fold. I'd likely bet since the K & A came after the flop. Although if I though the player wansn't quite loose enough to pay off with any pair I'd check/fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems exactly right to me. When either of two lines has its merits, tend to value bet passive players and tend to induce bluffs from aggressive ones (though don't go crazy inducing bluffs, it has its limitations). Here, I think I just bet and hope he's holding 88 or 76s.

[zram21]

Thanks for the replies everyone. It seems my line of thinking was pretty much in step with everyone else. I did bet the river and my opponent called.

My opponent flips over J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and MHING. Thanks again.

[belloc]

Wow, he open-calls with JJ? Right-click, player notes.

[noir]

For image purposes, betting has added value for future hands regardless of the outcome.
Both betting and folding to a raise and betting and showing down a loser or winner will force opponents to look you up later on. People love to call, and you've just given them more reasons to do so.