Am I missing something here?

domester · #1 05-19-2005, 10:28 AM

I fellow whom I regularly see at the 5/10 table at the Taj, and up until this point considered a reasonably decent player, lost a hand when he showed 35JK (w/ the K suited in hearts) from the small blind after a flop of 24T (two hearts) and his straight, flush and low draws all missed. The flop, turn and river betting rounds all were checked around to the same bettor who received at least three callers each time. My acquaintance says he had enough to continue past the flop, especially considering nobody raised. With only 3 outs to the nuts in either direction (the four aces less the one folded make him a wheel with the ace of hearts yielding a nut flush,) I disagree. Comments much appreciated.

JoshuaMayes · #2 05-19-2005, 10:51 AM

Well, you are definitely missing some essential info from your post [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. Most importantly, what was the pot size on the flop? How many players were still to act after your buddy when he called the flop bet, i.e. what was the bettor's position relative to the other callers?

domester · #3 05-19-2005, 11:10 AM

The pot wasn't raised pre-flop. And since I believe he was the small blind, he was the first checker and either the first or second caller after the other fellow bet.

JoshuaMayes · #4 05-19-2005, 11:13 AM

You didn't answer my questions.

edit -- From what you have given us, your buddy could be getting anywhere from 5:1 to 12:1 on his call and he could have anywhere from 1 to 8 people still to act after him.

If your buddy is getting 12:1 with only one person to act after him, this is a pretty easy call. If your buddy is getting 5:1 with two to act after him, its not a very good call.

GooperMC · #5 05-19-2005, 12:01 PM

You friend has a reasonably strong hand here. He has the second nut flush draw and the second nut low draw with a gut shot wheel draw.

I play K high flushes reasonably strong (you will only run into the A high flush 1/3) and I would play the second nut low draw reasonably strong (I would guess that you will run into A/3 about 1/3 of the time).

My guess that that your friend will have odds to continue but I agree with Joshua we really need to know the amount of players in the pot, action on each street, and size of the pot to really analyze the hand.

domester · #6 05-19-2005, 12:09 PM

He's the small blind; the pot is unraised pre-flop; four see the flop and turn; three see the river; the bettor is two to my guy's right. Is this the info you need?

Mr_J · #7 05-19-2005, 12:35 PM

"and the second nut low draw"

Nope, any A8 is better. A3 will obviously stay in, and if an A5-A8 saw the flop they might figure their low draw is good.

4 see the turn (inc your guy?)? I assume this was for 1 bet? 2 to the right? DO you mean that the bettor was 1st to call preflop or was actually sitting 2 seats to the right? So on the flop your guy checked, bb checked, other player checked and then the bettor bet, and you guy called?

Bremen · #8 05-19-2005, 12:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nope, any A8 is better.

[/ QUOTE ]
How is a draw to an 8 low better than a draw to a 5 low? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

sammy_g · #9 05-19-2005, 01:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"and the second nut low draw"

Nope, any A8 is better.

[/ QUOTE ]
No. Let's say a 7 comes. 8742A loses to 75432.

Edit: You're right it's not the second nut low draw, though. A5 is better.

GooperMC · #10 05-19-2005, 01:28 PM

So I slightly mis-read the board. It is a draw to the 3rd nut low and a draw to the second nut high.

Haven't reconstructed the hand yet (I will do when I get home), but I am guessing that your friend will still have odds to call.