5/10 drawing with AJ

willie24 · #1 03-29-2005, 09:12 PM

game is 5/10 holdem online. 8 handed

UTG2 is a somewhat tight, very aggressive player who is a too little loose preflop but plays very well on late streets.

MP2 is relatively unknown but appears to be fairly typical in all respects. neither very tight nor very loose, neither passive nor wildly aggressive
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UTG2 calls, folded to MP2 who raises, folded to hero in the BB who calls with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG2 calls.

flop: (6 small bets)

9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

hero checks, UTG2 checks, MP2 bets, hero raises, UTG2 reraises, MP2 calls, hero calls.

turn: (7.5 big bets) Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

hero checks, UTG2 checks, MP2 bets, hero raises, both call.

river: (13.5 big bets) T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

hero bets, UTG2 raises, MP2 folds, hero folds

final pot: 15.5 big bets

look good?

PokerBob · #2 03-29-2005, 09:42 PM

Post deleted by PokerBob

PokerBob · #3 03-29-2005, 09:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
game is 5/10 holdem online. 8 handed

UTG2 is a somewhat tight, very aggressive player who is a too little loose preflop but plays very well on late streets.

MP2 is relatively unknown but appears to be fairly typical in all respects. neither very tight nor very loose, neither passive nor wildly aggressive
--------------------
UTG2 calls, folded to MP2 who raises, folded to hero in the BB who calls with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG2 calls.

flop: (6 small bets)

9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

hero checks, UTG2 checks, MP2 bets, hero raises, UTG2 reraises, MP2 calls, hero calls.

turn: (7.5 big bets) Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

hero checks, UTG2 checks, MP2 bets, hero raises, both call.

river: (13.5 big bets) T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

hero bets, UTG2 raises, MP2 folds, hero folds

final pot: 15.5 big bets

look good?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate the turn c/r. But the river muck is worse.

Pokey · #4 03-29-2005, 09:43 PM

Let's see....

PREFLOP: AJs cold-calls one more bet in BB with another player in the game; seems fine to me. If it had been a steal attempt, I would have reraised, but with UTG2 already in, you can assume it's a value bet and play to improve.

FLOP: Check-raising your straight draw seems fine. UTG2 reraises, which has to get you a bit nervous, but MP2 doesn't cap it -- that's good to know. You played this one fine, too.

TURN: I probably bet this one out of the gate rather than check/raise. If you're convinced that UTG2 will bet it, then the CR makes sense, but when the bet comes from MP2, what do you think he's got? Two pair? Lonely queen? A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? I think your raise still has value, and I like it for the sake of its aggression.

RIVER: Oh my. I hate this fold. Do you really give a super-aggressive player credit for the boat? He could be betting a "blank" that's not a spade. He could be betting a third T. He could be betting that you'll fold. He could also be betting another J. Given your read on him, though, what two pair gets him to the river? Would he really play T9 or T8 from UTG2? For a raise? Would he really reraise the flop with top pair and a Q kicker? Would a super-aggro player check/call a flush on the turn? I'm seeing this as a solid situation to make a crying call. I'm thinking you win more than one time in 15 here.

sthief09 · #5 03-29-2005, 09:55 PM

I'd bet out on the turn, but I think the river fold is good. he's saying he can beat a flush, or at least can beat one himself.

willie24 · #6 03-29-2005, 10:26 PM

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Do you really give a super-aggressive player credit for the boat?

[/ QUOTE ]
absolutely

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He could be betting a "blank" that's not a spade. He could be betting a third T. He could be betting that you'll fold. He could also be betting another J.

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of all these, I would say a "blank"/pure bluff is the only one that is even remotely possible.

remember he is a thoughtful, excellent post-flop player. my own reputation is tight, aggressive, and i very rarely fold on the river. put yourself in his shoes. would you ever raise with a jack here? would you ever raise with trips here. what do you put me on? isn't it fairly obvious that i have a flush here at least 80% of the time? if i dont have a flush, i certainly have a straight. do you really expect me to fold a straight or flush? even 1 in 20 times?

i can guarantee you that he doesn't.

I'm not sure the check-raise on the turn was right. i wouldve been angry with myself had it been checked through. but one advantage to the successful check-raise (besides getting an extra 1-2 big bets in the pot when i am probably ahead, and giving myself a chance to knock out a lone spade) is that i KNOW my opponents put me on a flush. this allows me to fold the river with probably 99% certainty that I am beat.

[ QUOTE ]
Given your read on him, though, what two pair gets him to the river? Would he really play T9 or T8 from UTG2? for a raise?

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yes, my guess is that he would probably play both T9s and T8s from UTG2. the raise was behind him.

if i had to guess his hand though, i'd say chances are good he flopped a set

PokerProdigy · #7 03-29-2005, 10:36 PM

NO, don't fold on the river. You have NO reason to believe with 94% accuracy that your straight is NO good, you have to call this river bet.

willie24 · #8 03-29-2005, 10:44 PM

name one hand that you think a very good player might occasionally raise with on this river that i can beat or tie

if im calling with a straight here, im also calling with a pair of queens. they are essentially the same hand in this situation. both can beat a pure bluff and nothing else. very few opponents would pick this situation for a pure bluff

mikeyvegas · #9 03-30-2005, 12:14 AM

Getting 15:1 closing the action in a heads up pot on the river, I would have to call.

mikeyvegas · #10 03-30-2005, 12:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
name one hand that you think a very good player might occasionally raise with on this river that i can beat or tie

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AA or KK if he believes you had 2 pair and were counterfieted by the river or that you could laydown a str8 with that board. We're talking 15:1 here man.